The Magic Bus Trip

Heather L · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Cardio Free Experiment

I recently read some information related to resistance training that discussed how endurance training can hinder the progress in muscle improvement. Resistance training can also improve the cardiovascular system when done in a manner that keeps the person going from one move to another, without long breaks between sets. I tend to incorporate this by lifting chest with back, or other opposing muscle groups right after each other so I can keep moving from one lift to another.

I decided to try going Cardio Free for awhile and see how my progress goes. Now, I must tell you that before this experiment I was consistently doing 5 or more hours of cardio a week, as well as about 3 - 4 hours of weights. Yes, I am a gym bunny. LOL

This is partially out of desperation to lose weight and keep off the 80 pounds I have already lost, but also because I like the energy and strength I get from training.

I have only been at this for one week and my lifting has improved sharply. All my maximums increased. It has been a great week with the weights and I am really looking forward to seeing where this goes. I am hoping that increasing muscle mass, but more importantly improving my muscle quality will help me with my weight loss goals. It helps that I really like the look of solid, yet compact muscle. ( I like it even better on the guys Devil

)

I will post more info, maybe some links, as I keep this up. I know that not very many people here lift weights, but I am hoping others may still find the experiment interesting. My plan is to incorporate about 4 seperate hour long lifting sessions a week. I will walk on occasion, but at a low intensity level. I choose to keep this simply because I love Heart

a nice walk on the trails. I will also be devoting some time to stretching and yoga. I have been completely neglecting these since there hasn't been much workout time left for these until now. Wish me success. Grin

wifezilla · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject:

I did cardio 6 days a week, 1 hour a day for 2 years. I never lost a pound.
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jem51 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject:

i know everyone is aware that i do not believe in the cardio thing.

Heather L · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject:

Zilla- I can never lose with just cardio. I always have to focus on the diet in order to lose. Even with all the mega cardio I have been doing for so long, I still struggle and lose slowly. That is why I am willing to go in a completely new direction. I am hoping to learn better tricks.

Jem- While I am not really ready to say that all cardio is bad.... I definitely believe that it is not as effective for weight loss as the mainstream media wants us to believe. With all the hours I have put in on the machines over the years, I would have been thin by now if it was. LOL

Dean · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:

Heather,

While it is true that diet makes the critical difference when it comes to weight loss, body composition, getting ripped, etc., there is a place and a reason for cardio in health, even if just to move lymph. That being said, one can and does get plenty of cardio just doing resistance exercising as you've described. No need for treadmills. I love hiking, walking, and even some running, as well as HIIT on my treadmill, but I realize this stuff is not necessary. However, moving one's muscles, getting one's heart going, and working up a sweat surely is. Yup

BTW, when it comes to exercise, you rock! Cool

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

jem51 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:

i agree w the mainstream media comment. lots of cardio came w lots of carbs and no fat. since i don't eat that way, i must not need all that cardio. oh, and i swear my muscles got smaller or maybe they just got lost in the fat!!

Heather · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Cardio Free Experiment

Heather L · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:

Heather · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject:

I see where you are coming from.

Dean · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:

Are you asking if there is a way to work both types of muscle fibers to achieve similar maximum results? Confused

Or is there a party goin' on at the Back of the Bus? Wow

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Dan · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 207 Gender: Male

Nothing is more cardio that barbell squats. Nothing.

Cardio is pretty useless for losing weight. Say you're a 180 lb. man and you walk an hour at a good pace. The book says you burned 300 or so calories. You think "Woo hoo! This will shed a pound in about a week and a half if I do this every day."

Trouble is you'd burn 150 calories for the hour just sitting on a couch. So while you burned 300 calories for the hour, you only burned 150 more than you normally would have for the day. 1 can of coke will completely negate your efforts.

Doesn't seem like a good investment of your time, does it?
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jem51 · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject:

my man dan. i agree. i do walk everyday for the most part. i live in a small town and can do pretty much everything on foot. i love that. and i love being outside. but my heartrate is much higher when doing strenuous work or working out w weights. it seems that if cardio is important to you just eliminate the rest between sets.

Dean · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject:

ITA with both of you! I think if one loves to run or walk or hike, that's great, but, I think the best exercise for your time (bang for your buck) would be strenuous resistance training. That would really do a lot for shaking things up, to get recomp goin'. I need to do this. I can't blame extra fat calories on my current stall. I need to exercise, dammit! And, I need to start with this type of strenuous resistance training. After all, since you absolutely need both types of exercise to be healthy, why not combine them for time saving?
_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Heather L · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject:

Dean · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject:

Heather, these are all really good points.

Question. What do you think of HIIT? I think you are saying that steady state is going to take away from the resistance gains. But, what about short HIIT sessions?

I love to walk/hike in nature, and you're saying this won't mess with gains in hypertrophy from resistance? I think I hear you saying that only steady state fairly intense cardio will do that.

Thanks.
_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Heather L · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:

Dean- I am not an expert on this, but I do love to look into research. I am not certain about the HIIT using running, since the running would focus on the slow twitch fibers, right? I will keep an eye out for more info related to this. I have used them in the past, and I think they are the most impressive cardio in term of rapid fitness gains in performance/ speed. I am not using them for now.

I just saw an article on using the HIIT principle with weights. They alternated between harder compound moves, and isolation moves. Here is an example that I use myself. I pair up the plate loaded leg press machine with the calf raise, and then move back and forth between the two exercises until I finish my desired number of sets. The leg press machine is pretty taxing. I loaded on 540lbs... which I do about 10 reps of per set. This gets my heart rate pretty high, so then when I do the seated calf raises, my heart rate drops a bit. I have been doing about 6 sets of these together. I then move on to a few different combinations ( 10 reps or less, and 3 sets or more) and by then my hour is up and I go home. It's a lot like the cardio version of HIIT. It really kicks my butt, but it is also exhilarating at the same time.

The info I read on walking said that only after about 30 minutes did it start to hinder muscle gains. I go for about 45 minutes at a time and it hasn't worked against me, from what I can tell. ( Some of my lifts improved even more yesterday... so I am pretty excited about it.) I think this is because the body is so well adapted to walking. It makes sense, since we do it all the time. I would bet that the info for hiking is fairly similar, but I am not sure. I hardly ever get to go for a very long hike anyway... though I have loved doing so in the past when I get the chance.

I would love to see you give the all resistance training a try. I bet you would see improvement with even 2 session a week. I would start out with shorter sessions, like 20 minutes, at first though if you don't want to get sore. I don't get sore much anymore now since lifting quite regularly. Bonus: Devil

Weight lifting boosts testosterone production in men, and you know how great that can be. Wink

Hope I didn't go into too much info. LOL

Dean · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:51 am Post subject:

Thanks, Heather.

Yah, I think I'm gonna design some routines that use HIIT on my treadmill and doing resistance workouts, along with body resistance. I've got the equipment for this, and it would make it fun. Sort of like a circuit training thing. When I use my treadmill for HIIT, I am just briskly walking, cuz I use the incline, and mine has a killer incline - goes up to 15%! I don't know how this plays into what you are talking about, but, anyway, I gotta get after it. Seriously, I do! Yup

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Heather L · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject:

I was looking around for info on the HIIT in relation to building muscle. Where I was reading, the article said that intervals of anaerobic sprinting , a short session, would work well with muscle building, since it is anaerobic. Interesting. I will not be adding this at this time, but it is good to know for future reference.

Honestly, I am not into sprinting. When I incorporated using sprint intervals on the track, and the elliptical machine last year I ended up with a mildly sprained ankle.(not fun!) Maybe this would appeal to me more once some of the 50 extra pounds I still carry are gone. Who knows?

Grin

I had a hard and heavy lower body session today, and upped my weighted leg press to 630 lbs for the 10 reps-- several sets. That was a higher number than last week. I expect that the gains will start to slow down now...diminishing returns, and all that. We'll see. I also made a point to track my heart rate Heart

for anyone interested. Right after the leg press my heart rate was at 160 beats per minute, and right after seated calf raise it was around 120 bpm. Repeat this several times, and it should give an excellent stimulation to the cardiovascular system, huh?

I did go out for a walk on the nature trail yesterday, and got to enjoy the sunshine I have been missing so much this winter. Yay!! Sunny

Heather L · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:

Just a quick update---
I am still going with the weight training, and some walking, yoga, etc. It is going well for me... still having strength gains again this week, and noticing some visual improvement in the muscles, especially my arms. I have not dropped any weight, but am not surprised as I have not been keeping the calories low enough the past several weeks. I am planning to tighten this up more in April, though. I get burned out on calorie control, and just cannot do it all the time. I would like to be that disciplined, but must admit that I need breaks where I eat more.

I am focusing on long term body improvement. It may take me all year or more to get where I want to be physically, but I will get there. I am loving how strong I am, and how energetic I am feeling with my current exercise "cardio- free" program. Sunny

I am looking forward to April, and new changes. Happy

Heather L · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject:

I have been pushing to challenge my muscles by taking the maximums higher, using different lifts, lower reps, etc. Well, I could tell this weekend that I had succeeded in pushing to the limit. I was sore in some places that I forgot I had muscles. LOL

I was back to "normal" today, and was right back into the gym.

I had a good lifting session again today. I am currently free weight bench pressing 165#, and machine pressing 230# for 10 reps. I have no idea why it is so much less for the free weight press, but guess it must have something to do with the muscles that stabilize the free weight press.... I am sure that I don't push to the limit as much with the free weight as it makes me nervous to go all out without a spotter.

Now, I am looking forward to seeing how weight loss goes with this program as I tighten up my eating with the April challenge, and watching the calories more closely than I have been this month. I had gotten quite lazy about the counts this month . Oops

Time to quit being a baby and start tracking everything in fitday again. (sigh)

Dean · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject:

Dean- Thanks for the input. It's good to know. I think I may try to use those dumbbells more often then, since I hardly ever have a spotter. I try to use a wide variety of positions and equipment in order to challenge the muscles in new ways. It also keeps the lifting more interesting.

Heather L · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:

Ok, so I thought I would throw a little humor in here...

I was lifting at the gym and there was a guy with a "Naked Coed Weight Lifting" t-shirt on. Maybe I should have used that for my thread title... just to mess with people's minds. That wasn't the only thing I was thinking since he was a real babe with great shoulders and some strong looking forearms ( I have a thing for forearms.lol) Devil

I had to keep pulling my mind back to the lifting. Funny thing is that if the guys there are hot, I actually lift even better. There has got to be some mind/ body reason for that. I know... Iknow, I am such a nymph. LOL

This last week I didn't really see strength gains, so I stuck an extra rest day in there, and it seems to have helped. I was lifting very well today, and my 175# on the barbell bench press was feeling easier. I think I will try to bump it up to 185 later this week, even if that means swallowing my pride and asking some guy to spot me. I still can't do a pull-up, even though I can pull- down my body weight. My guess is that the pull- up is just more difficult for the support muscles. Lifting gloves might help with the grip, as well. Hmm. I will just keep working on it.... I am so close I can taste it!! The rows and shoulder presses were feeling easy today as well. I am looking forward to a great training week. Sunny

Dan · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 207 Gender: Male

If you want a cardiovascualr effect from weight training, keep your rest periods short between sets...perhaps a minute or so.

I also like to do supersets to beat the sh*t out of a muscle.

For example...leg extensions...straight to squats...straight to wall sits...

Another good one is flys...bench press...overhead tricep

No rest between exercises in the superset...

Its...er...fun!
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Heather L · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject:

Dan- ITA. Yup

I am all about the superset during my weight training. It keeps my heartrate up during my training sessions. Heart

I usually use supersets with opposing muscle groups, quickly alternating between presses and rows, for example. I leave only enough time between sets to set up for the next (probably 30 sec or less) I keep moving for the whole hour I am lifting.... with an occasional break for water.

I don't use the superset on the same muscle group quite as often, but save it for when I really want to push a muscle to improve.

This is week 5 of my "cardio free experiment" and I can't believe how much progress I have made in strength!! Just yesterday I did the barbell bench press at 185# for 8-10 reps. This is a huge improvement. Before my experiment I was typically barbell pressing only 155#. I may never go back to my old ways--- lots of hours of high intensity cardio paired with my weight training. Now, I use 4-5 hours of weight training in a week, with about 3 hours (aprox.) of easy walking spread out over the week.

I am getting so much more from less training time with this method. Grin

Dean · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject:

Heather,

This all sound so wonderful. I'm glad you have figured all this out for yourself. Cool

As usual, you are such an inspiration. Yup

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Heather L · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

Dean- Aw, thanks, that is sweet to say. Sunny

You have been pretty inspirational lately, too. You gave up your sweetheart (cream) and haven't looked back. Impressive.

Badger · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

Hey Heather, congratulations on all the improvements. What do you do to warm up before you start lifting?
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Heather L · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject:

Badger- I do a longer set of reps with lighter weight for the muscle group to warm up. For example, with the barbell press I do several reps with just the bar before I load it up with weights. Sometimes I walk around the track a few times to get the blood going before I start, as well.

Badger · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject:

Cool, thanks Heart

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Heather L · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:

It is still going very well. Happy

I am feeling so positive about my body and strength.

I haven't had any new high numbers this week, but I am not surprised. I wouldn't expect to see those every single week.

Here are some of my current #s for my sets of 10 reps:
( I don't do all these on the same day-- I divide my workouts into lower body, upper body, etc)
Machine leg press-- 700#
Seated calf raise--105#-per side/ isolated
hip adduction(inner thigh)----130#
hip abduction(outer)--170#
dumbbell shoulder press -35# each side
machine bench press 230/250#
barbell bench press--185#
machine row 190#
machine lat pulldown 220#

This shows where I am at, and will give me something to refer back to.
I do several other moves for variety, and to train the muscles at different angles, etc... but these are the basics I always come back to.

Heather L · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

Well, no new high numbers since my last post.

I fully expected the gains to slow down a bit. If it were that easy to keep improving, then what would I be lifting in a year? Shock

I can't imagine. I am still holding on to those numbers though, and will update if they start to go up again.

I am still lifting about 4 times a week, alternating upper body and lower body sessions.

Oh yeah, and I signed up for a class in coed naked weight lifting...... NO, just kidding. Thought I'd try for a little humor to spice up an otherwise boring entry. hehe. Devil

jeff · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:25 am Post subject:

Naked coed weight lifting......Hmmmmmmm......... Devil

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Heather L · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject:

Some new numbers for this week. The strength gains did slow down, but still seem to make progress. I have noticed how dense some of the muscles are feeling. My calf muscles, biceps and forearms seems harder... especially during the post workout "pump".

I was lifting the same amount for bench press as the latino guy with the fabulous shoulders and back muscles. I was surprised, and almost Oops

... but then I got over it. No guy would ever feel embarrassed for outlifting someone else, so why should I??

Here are some of my current #s for my sets of 10 reps:
( New Numbers will have **)
Machine leg press-- 700#
Seated calf raise--105#-per side/ isolated
hip adduction(inner thigh)----140# **
hip abduction(outer)--180# **
dumbbell shoulder press -35# each side
machine bench press 230/250#
barbell bench press--195# **
machine row 190#
machine lat pulldown 230# **

jeff · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:38 am Post subject:

Heather, those are some truly impressive numbers. Yup

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Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Heather L · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject:

Jeff- Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement. Heart

jeff · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject:

jeff · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:10 am Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

jeff · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:

Jeff- Hope you had a good shower. Wink

I got a little wild and crazy with the wrestling images. LOL

Progress with my training:
I have not had any big jumps in numbers lately. They have stayed steady. I decided to throw in some change and will be training with low reps for a while (3-5 per set) and see what happens. I don't like to get in a rut, and am due for a change. -- I am planning on 3 weight training sessions per week, along with my trail walks, and some random sessions of Intervals (HIIT). I wanted to include these as they also work the fast twitch fibers. We'll see how it goes.

Later I will probably cycle back to the 10 rep workouts. It's not that I am unhappy with my progress, as I have made some big strength gains, but rather that I believe the workout should change every now and then to keep the body improving. (periodization, cross training, etc)

I am still avoiding all steady state (traditional cardio) workouts. I am keeping the workouts either very moderate like the trail walks, or high intensity anaerobic/ fast twitch training like the weights and now HIIT.

I am open to suggestions from your training experience, if anyone wants to share. Happy

Nicola · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject:

In Switzerland many (me too) do nordic walking - it's very popular because walking with sticks feels good and does a lot for your health both mentaly and physicaly:

http://www.nordicwalkingforhealth.co.uk/

Nicola

jeff · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

Nicola- The Nordic Walking looks like it would be a good workout. I might have to try that. Thanks.

Jeff- I'm glad it was good for you, too. Yup

It has been fun doing the low reps because I can go even heavier with the weights, and I get such a rush from my training. It's not better than sex, LOL

but it is pretty " addictive".

jeff · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject:

Heather L · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject:

I enjoyed my heavy weight low rep session today. It is great fun!! Grin

I am freaking out the older guys at the gym, though. LOL

They keep teasing me about how much I lift...saying " I better not mess with you", or I could win a bet on you" and similar jokes. I try to just laugh and make a muscle. I know they mean it as a compliment, so I try not to get embarrassed Oops

by the attention. There aren't many women over in the free weight section, so I guess I stand out. LOL

Here are some of the numbers I have had with my 5 rep sessions: (all are higher than my 10 rep numbers)

Shoulder press-- 40# each side
Machine bench press-- 270#
Barbell Benchpress-- 205# Grin

Machine row--230#
Lat pulldown machine 260# Grin

By the time I do my weights and some walking right after, I feel like I am on cloud 9... like runners high, but I could call it "lifters high". If I need a change in mood, my workouts( weights or walking), both really do the trick.

Dean · Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject:

Heather, please keep posting your results and experiences. They are very inspiring and motivational. You rock! Cool

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!