The Magic Bus Trip

Loops

Hi all -

I drop in here now and again. After having no more joy getting back down to my favourite weight on reduced protien high fat I'm now seriously doing a butter only experiment with a lot of meat.

Been trying to drop most dairy for a loooong time and keep tripping up, but I feel I may have found the answer. I basically have to stuff myself with ground beef patties coated in butter or other fat and then I stay full for a very long time.

It is a high protein experiment for me. I haven't been high protein the whole time I've been low-carbing due to a fear that too much protein will make me put on weight.

Well we shall see.

Yesterday I ate over half a kilo of tallow deep fat-fried ground beef coated in butter in one sitting which is double the protein I eat in one day. I was uncomfortably stuffed but pleasantly surprised that I was not hungry for a very, very long time afterwards - and no cheese cravings. I had always been scared of the dreaded appetite after eating too much protein, but as longas I stuff myself it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Yeah - I know, if my calories are too high, even on VLC I won't lose weight - but I've never tried to 'get ahead of the game' by stuffing myself.

I'm also not exercising right now as I'm ill with the flu.

Maybe my stomach just shrank before eating mostly fat with a bit of protein?

Energy-wise I feel very good actually this afternoon.

I am at 24% body fat (Omron says anyway). I would like to be 20%. I might allow myself a piece of lettuce every now and then, but the main difference is a lot more meat, and no cream or cheese.

Wish me luck

Loops

Loops · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject:

ok it's 7.30pm here in Chile and I'm still not hungry - and when I say that, I mean I STILL FEEL FULL. Like, really mega full. I must have eaten a boat-load of calories at 2pm because I just don't feel hungry.

And....well...I had a glass of dry chardonnay - which is in the plan btw. What is NOT in the plan is cheese and too much cream right now. I really want to give this 2 weeks to see what happens (the no dairy apart from butter). I really think that 2 weeks will give me a good idea of if it affects me or not (weightwise).

Dean · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject:

to Journaland, Loops! Cool

You know, I'm sorta doin' the same thing lately. I am just eating beef in the evening, and then a bit of wine. IF all day, after a couple cups of java. I like it, and I am slowly losing the last bit of body fat I've got. The best part is letting my body detox from artificial "food".

Hey, how much do you think wine will stall a person? I wonder if it derails keto-adaptation? What are your thoughts on that?

Nice to see ya around. Heart

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kateryna · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:04 am Post subject:

Hey Loops, welcome to our little family. Excellent

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Carnivore (Jun 12/09) 227/196.2/137 Max. wt: 247 (Jul-08)
"I don't want to live a little, I want to live a LOT, and I want to live WELL! Kateryna

Loops · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:

thanks -

no Dean I don't really think a bit of wine derails me. Most dry reds are very low in sugar (3g/litre), and it has never affected me before.

Going day 2. Last night ended in a little disaster - a couple of oz of brie cheese - oh well, today is another day. I couldn't really stomach more meat but felt like I should eat something! This is the usual thing for me!

This morning I did have a bit of cream in some coffee and immediately started to feel the old brain fog coming back. I've been paying a lot of attention recently - not sure if it is TRUE, or whether I'm imagining it but I THINK I do feel a bit more lethargic after eating dairy.

So today I'm going for the meat again. I might also have a tomato, but no more cream, so I should end up below 10g carbs.

I had really good energy yesterday and was in a very good mood, despite feeling bloated from all the meat.

Weight is still holding at 65 kilos, up 1/2 kilo from a week ago (could be replenished glycogen stores as I've been eating more protein and not exercising due to illness).

Body fat went up from 24% to 24.7% which means bugger all. I'm basically trying to switch from a high fat lots of dairy with low protein (70g) diet to a higher protein (as much as I like) with little-no dairy.

jeff · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject:

Loops · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:

yeah man it's truly bizarre.

Arg. One problem I have with cutting down on dairy is when I'm faced with lean meat options. Like last night - a big raw steak (almost raw). Appetite was kaput after a few mouthfuls but I need to eat. Have to get through this.

Am up a couple of pounds but I am premenstrual so doesn't mean anything.

AlexF · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:40 am Post subject:

Premenstrual huh? Better eat lots of red meat.....get that iron in your system. I'm a cheese addict too. I find cheese is really bad at filling you up. I can go through a half pound in one sitting and I'm hungry again a few hours ago! I also find cheese to be constipating (like Bear claimed)

For me, nothing works better than a pound of barely-cooked ground beef and a half stick of butter. I've been eating grass-fed ground beef every day around 6pm for the last few days and I don't feel hungry till around 6pm the next day.
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Loops · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject:

Hi Alex -

still not sure about cheese but trying to cut it out anyway for the time being. Yesterday was a bit of a disaster. I was deep fat frying some broccoli for my hubby (in tallow of course) and a few florets just jumped straight into my mouth. Yeah they were heavenly - totally saturated in cow fat and crispy.

In my attempt to cut down/give up my cream/cheese I keep hanging on to how good I feel when I don't do it. I mean, it's not like I fell BAD or anything when I eat cheese/cream, just not as clear-headed and motivated as when I eat a ton of meat/fat.

I just have to actually keep it up for a week or so to see if that's what's really been causing me problems. I think if I can see a clear difference (either for better or for worse), or indeed NO difference at all, it will be better than constantly wondering if it is tripping me up (i.e. preventing weight loss).

I am a little bit concerned with gaining more weight though - that is holding me back. I mean I'm not sure exactly what I can do about it if I do gain more weight. You can't go negative carbs right? LOL

Guess I could start butter-fasting if that happened Yup

jeff · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

Loops · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject:

yeah it's weird.

HOWEVER. Today hasn't been so hot so far. I ate brekky (eggs + butter) - couple of hours later I was HUNGRY. I drank black coffee with brek. Usually I drink a couple of cups of tea for breakfast with a fair amount of cream and have a very small portion of eggs and this takes me through til about 2pm (from 8am).

So anyway I cooked up 1/2 kilo of shrimp in about 100g of butter and some curry spices. I ate most of it. Now I just feel tired. Not like how I felt with the beef the other day. So far I've probably had about 70-80g of protein, which is normally how much I eat over the whole day.

Hmm.

Weight is still up at 65.5 kilos from 64.5 a week ago. I don't usually get pre-menstrual gain - usually the opposite which is weird. Anyway we'll see. I have to admit I'm not too fond of black coffee, and I can't drink tea without cream, but all in the name of experimentation Happy

Loops · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject:

Actually I just looked at the packet of shrimp -

20g protein per 100g. 500g of shrimp - 100g of protein! Holy crap! I'd already eaten breakfast of about 25g protein. So so far I've already eaten about 100g of protein.

I will be very surprised if this works for me - but if it does, it means the whole gluconogenesis causing insulin release thing is crap.

jeff · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject:

Loops · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject:

ok I guess it's about time to resurrect my poor old journal here.

Been having some ups and downs with diet and personal stuff. Not eating tons of carbs or anything, but lots of experimenting with veg/nuts and varying amounts of protein/fat.

Discovered that not eating dairy doesn't provide me with as much energy even if I eat tallow. Then again I never give it up for long enough to seriously find out.

Weight has been creeping up, but according to my fat monitor things are exactly the same as before - 23-24% bodyfat - pretty consistently. Occasionally I see a dip into 22 and once I even saw 21%, but then again very occasionally it swings upwards to 25%.

I still have vague desires to get down to 20% bodyfat, and have been throwing out the weight gain issue on another forum to see if there's anything else people have tried that I have not.

So I think I'll keep track here as well just to see if I can't shift the excess.

kateryna · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject:

Welcome back Loops Wave

I've been doing a bit of experimentation myself and seem to have narrowed a few things down that work for me.

Just keep at it and you'll find what works for you. Reading what works or doesn't work for others helps as well and gives you ideas.
_________________
Carnivore (Jun 12/09) 227/196.2/137 Max. wt: 247 (Jul-08)
"I don't want to live a little, I want to live a LOT, and I want to live WELL! Kateryna

jeff · Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:25 am Post subject:

Hey Loops, welcome back. Good to see you.
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runningdog · Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:36 am Post subject:

runningdog · Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:43 am Post subject:

Good post on weight loss:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspo...05/weight-loss-when-its-hard.html
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"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.

Loops · Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject:

Hips, thighs, arms and face. The only place not really gaining is my waist - so completely the opposite of what used to happen. Sounds like an estrogen thing to me.

Yeah I tried dropping the fat calories slightly - yep I lose, but then when fat calories are added back in I gain what I lost back. I wrote this on another forum, but I initially did lose down to 60 kilos which I was very happy with eating boatloads of calories. Nothing changed really - just started gaining one day and it hasn't really stopped. Still - maybe that's what's supposed to happen - maybe my bod thought 60 kilos was too low - but damn, I looked really good at that weight.

Am eating lots of pork at the moment - I think when I was losing I was eating a lot of chorizo, cheese, cream, nuts, egg yolks and the odd bit of veg.

Loops · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject:

Oh yeah, the pregnant goats have given birth so I got my source back for cheap raw goat cheese. Let the cheese fest begin I say.

Aside from goat dairy, am at present experimenting with different types of sausages - most are too salty here, but 'German-style' is in right now and they resemble English sausages but without all the rusk etc.

Sausages, cheese and wine. Oh and some peppers. Effing gardener went and planted about 50 lettuces - maybe I'll have to turn into a rabbit and include some of those.

I'm finding it actually hard to get out of ketosis at any point these days - possibly due to the copious amounts of fat I eat. That's even with trying - can eat lots of veg and berries and nuts, oh and of course wine - and still never seem to move out of it.

I've become a fat-addict over the past 4 years. Now I laugh whenever I see people advocating a 'high fat diet' of 50% fat. Yeah, ok, whatever.

runningdog · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:39 am Post subject:

Are you loosing or gaining?
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"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.

Loops · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject:

dunno yet - haven't weighed for awhile - might do next week.

runningdog · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject:

For me high fat is probably close to 90%.
I don't have any problems eating like 80% fat on a daily basis but around 90% it takes an effort to eat that much fat.
_________________
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.

kateryna · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject:

High fat seems to work better for me too, it's just getting it up there that's a problem.
_________________
Carnivore (Jun 12/09) 227/196.2/137 Max. wt: 247 (Jul-08)
"I don't want to live a little, I want to live a LOT, and I want to live WELL! Kateryna

Loops · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject:

well now that all depends on if you include dairy from my own experience - mainly because the ***tards trim the huge layer of fat off of the cow before it even gets to my local butcher.

I can quite happily sit down and munch away on a whole bag of rendered pig fat. Butter is a bit more tricky unless you add it to stuff, but cream is easy to take in quantities of. I also eat nuts - almonds mostly, along with tea and cream - so that takes me up to over 80% right there.

Yeah I agree, 80% is comfortable for me. 90% seems like I need more protein to go with it or something.

The veg is only there really to give texture to pure fat - cauli/butter for instance, although nuts seem to be better than veg. Pork crispies rule though, when I can get them.

Loops · Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject:

another update.

Once more have been experimenting with dairy vs no dairy. It's obvious to me now that cream/butter provides much longer-lasting satiation than tallow.

Breakfast day 1 3 eggs cooked in tons of tallow. Hunger - 4 hours later.
Day 2 - 2 cups tea with cream, then eggs with bit of tomato and tons of butter and also some goat cheese - no hunger until 7 hours later. Actually at this point I had to make time to eat because I was doing too much stuff and felt not exactly hunger but need to refuel.

Weight is still high though - too high for my liking. Been having a gradual gain over the past year and now it's starting to piss me off. I may try and do very high calories (all excess from fat) to see if that gets things going down again.

I doubt my protein is too high as I'm playing tennis again and my muscles sure as **it don't feel like the glycogen has been replenished at all. Basically my leg muscles - upper body doesn't lose any strength, but I need at least 2 days, maybe 3 to get back the 'energy' in my legs. This hasn't ever changed.

Right now I'm sitting at 66.4 kilos at 5'6 which is high for me. When I started LCing 4 years ago I was 65 - then I went down to 60, then gradually up and then to above starting weight.

Bodyfat has also gone up - I wasn't inputting my new weight into the machine so it was telling me lies!

Looking to find the answer, without getting too obsessed and rigid about things though....

runningdog · Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:

Loops · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject:

hey -

do you have any ideas what it might be? I've struggled with this for a long time now - it's kind of annoying. Given enough rest (but that is like a whole week) I am up to par again, but I want to be able to train more than once a week. It's basically just doing lots of sprinting that gets me - there's just no juice in the legs. I should be well adapted to LC by now - basically I'm very stubborn to add in more carbs - something about it doesn't seem right to me.

Ok, I am finding that cheese on it's own is fine, but mixed with meat gives me indigestion....Guess those cultures that forbid mixing the two had something right.

Loops · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject:

I should add that my upper body muscles have really benefitted from LC though and my strength for hitting is the best it's ever been. Just my legs....

runningdog · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject:

I've got a few ideas but let me detox a little bit to clear my head.
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"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.

runningdog · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject:

In a meantime read this thread:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showth...php?t=362088&page=1&pp=15
but skip the pro Gary Taubes bullshit.
_________________
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.

Loops · Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject:

interesting read - thanks for the link.

Let me know what your ideas are.....cheers.

surfergirl · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:04 am Post subject:

Hi Loops...Just stopping by to say hi and ask how everything is going. runningdog's link was interesting. Esp the part about Mayans and pigs and the Mongol's dairy/meat diet.
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Loops · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject:

hey there -

have figured I'm simply not making enough sugar to do anaerobic sprinting once my heart rate has gone above a certain amount, for whatever reasons.

Oh, and dairy is back in. I'm allergic or something like it to coconut it turns out. I'm not doing no dairy without a sub.

A positive note though. Despite weighing an absolute ton (for me anyway) I have had some comments. Was at a party the other week and doing drunken acrobatics (not just me I'm not that crazy) - as in, lift somebody up by their feet and let them fall onto other people etc. Well my mate tried to lift me and there was a torrent of swearing etc as she could not believe how heavy I was. I apologized of course although found it quite funny - anyway she called me the skinniest heaviest person ever and that I was 100% muscle. Ha!

Now all I have to do is work out how to stop J wasting away as he is as thin as a rake possibly due to all the fat we are eating. He eats rice and potatoes etc. Lucky bastard - it was supposed to be me that lost the weight.

surfergirl · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject:

Sounds like your parties are fun!
I've been using dairy and meat in my experiments.
I wish, like J, I could eat rice and potatoes but can't tolerate white foods well.

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runningdog · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject:

Loops · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject:

yeah but what? Gotta figure it out anyway! Off for a swim. Am lifting weights (legs) to try to get some muscle back from my atrophied leg after the injury which was AGES ago.

Suggestions always welcome......

jeff · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject:

runningdog · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:10 am Post subject:

I have to start measure my HR again. I've got 2 HR monitors but I don't use them.

So Loops no excuses, we'll make you exercise hard eventually.
So your husband gets leaner when he adds fat calories to the food he normally eats right?

_________________
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - Hunter Thompson.