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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6033
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: Jeff's 6 Hour Coyote Running Extravaganza |
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About a week agao I was thinking today might be the day for this. But 2 factors have changed my mind. First, it's going to be too damn hot!! They are predicting upper 80's, which is crazy hot for Wisconsin for late Sept. The other factor is that I feel like I should rest my body a bit before I attempt something of this magnitude. So it looks like next monday, Oct. 1 will be the day.
The past couple of months I've been experimenting with different stategies for this. I think I've settled on something along these lines:
Run 11 minutes
Walk 2 minutes
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat...........
I have been able to average about 10:45/mile for up to 2 hours doing this.
This pace would put me at about 33 miles for 6 hours. I'm going assume that I'm going to slow down some in the later miles, so I think 30 miles is a pretty realistic goal.
All of this will be done carb fee. However, I'm not quite sure what I will eat for my pre-run meal. I'm thinking some raw eggs, maybe some very rare fatty beef, and some coffee with heavy cream. Not much coffee, though. I don't want to have to stop and pee too often. 
I'm also not sure if I should eat anything during the run. Most long distance runners will gobble all kinds of sugar during a long run. I have no intention of doing that, of course. I know I'll need lots of water and a fully chaged IPod. 
Well, there we have it. I'll certainly entertain any suggestions, thoughts , or comments that anybody has to offer. Wish me luck!!!
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6033
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The past couple of months I've been experimenting with different stategies for this. I think I've settled on something along these lines:
Run 11 minutes
Walk 2 minutes
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat........... |
Correction.....that should read:
Run 9 minutes
Walk 2 minutes
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.........
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Heather
Location: near Edmonton
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 12 October 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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OK cool, that sounds crazy fun. You have to tell us all the details!
How much is the farthest you've ever run in one try? Have you ever gone past the 15-20 miles?
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 Heather |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6033
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| Heather wrote: | OK cool, that sounds crazy fun. You have to tell us all the details!
How much is the farthest you've ever run in one try? Have you ever gone past the 15-20 miles? |
I've never gone more than about 13 miles, or 2 hours. So, this is really uncharted territory for me.
In theory, once one is fat and keto-adapted, there should be an almost unlimited supply of energy. No "wall" to hit, and no "bonking". Even a very lean person would have enough body fat to run a marathon or more. Of course, there is more to it than just energy. There is muscle fatigue, and joint soreness from all the pounding.
I ran 3 easy miles yesterday. I may do another short, easy run on thursday....or maybe even just do some walking. Then, nothing until the big day. I want to be well rested. I wonder....should I do some "fat-loading" the day before?
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Dan
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6033
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting.....thanks Dan. I'm not surpried, though.
| Quote: | Each period of exercise lasted about one hour and took place three times a week. After 12 weeks, researchers found that the body fat percentage in the soccer players dropped by 3.7 percent, compared to about 2 percent for the joggers.
The soccer players also increased their muscle mass by almost 4.5 pounds, whereas the joggers didn't have any significant change. Those who did no exercise registered little change in body fat and muscle mass |
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Playing soccer would be similar to HIIT or coyote running. Short bursts of sprinting, some slower running, and even some walking. Interesting that the soccer players added significant muscle. I have felt for awhile now that intense exercise of any kind will build muscle. Probably the HGH factor.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I"ve decided I'm really going to load up on the fat this weekend in preparation for monday. I'll try to get in an extra 2000-3000 calories.
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Dave
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | I"ve decided I'm really going to load up on the fat this weekend in preparation for monday. I'll try to get in an extra 2000-3000 calories. |
sounds delicious! |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Dave wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | I"ve decided I'm really going to load up on the fat this weekend in preparation for monday. I'll try to get in an extra 2000-3000 calories. |
sounds delicious! |
I must admit, I'm looking forward to it. Sunday will be a total pig-out day.......with as much fat as I can manage. The things I put myself through in the name of science.......
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Heather
Location: near Edmonton
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Is this the Monday?
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Heather |
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Rich
Location: Florida
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 287
Born: 19 December 1965
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Probably still going |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6033
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Heather wrote: | | Is this the Monday? |
Yes it was.
First, the bad news. I had to quit after 5 hours. The pain in my knees and hips had become unbearable. I was fine until about mile 15, but after that things gradually got worse. Energy was not a problem. I did not "hit the wall" or "bonk". I never felt the least bit winded. Pain is the only reason I stopped.
The good news: I did manage to make it 26.5 miles (42.4 km) in 5 hours. That works out to 11:30 per mile.......I won't win any races, but I did prove that it's possible to run marathon distance without carbs.
With the pain I was feeling last night, I fully expected to be lucky to even get out of bed this morning. Much to my surprise, when I got up this morning, my legs and entire body felt just fine. I don't feel any different than if I had run 3 miles. Perhaps animal fat being anti-inflammatory has something to do with that.
One final word........
Don't ever let me do that again!!!!
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Rich
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats  |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Rich.
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Heather
Location: near Edmonton
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Wow, great job! It's been a while since I have posted here....
I had pain in the front of my thighs when I run too far and for a day or two after I feel my thighs when I was walking on stairs.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Heather.
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Adapaz
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Great job Jeff. No surprises about not hitting the wall but what about muscle soreness? Did you feel any? If it were not for the pain do you think you would have been able to continue for a significant period of time? I wonder if one was to enter a marathon keto adapted and carb load the night before the race if the body would use up available carbs and then smoothly transition to fat burning without hitting the wall.
I always like to read about your experiments. |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Adapaz wrote: | Great job Jeff. No surprises about not hitting the wall but what about muscle soreness? Did you feel any? If it were not for the pain do you think you would have been able to continue for a significant period of time? I wonder if one was to enter a marathon keto adapted and carb load the night before the race if the body would use up available carbs and then smoothly transition to fat burning without hitting the wall.
I always like to read about your experiments. |
First, let me say I love your avatar. It looks delicious.
I really did not have much muscle sorness. The pain I had was in my joints: the knees and hips. Yes, if not for the pain, I am sure I could have easily continued.
You pose an intersting question about being keto-adapted and then carb-loading the day before a marathon. I really have no idea how a person's body would react in that situation. It's not an experiment I would ever do, but for a competitive runner it could be worth looking into.
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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That is if the glycogen stores are ever even used for muscle contractions. It could be, as Bear always said, that stuffing your glycogen stores is not going to do anything but temporarily slow down gluconeogenesis, by providing glucose to your blood, not your muscles. I'd be willing to experiment with that. See if after running a marathon my glycogen stores were diminished.
I remember once, when I did "carb load" (cheat) and then went to the park for a long run/walk, my muscles still seemed full of glycogen when I was through, and I wasn't peeing like a race horse either, as one does as their glycogen stores deplete (as during the first days of induction). The next morning I did pee out a lot of water from the gradual breakdown of all that glycogen. My thoughts are that glycogen stores are just for blood glucose, and are not used for muscle contractions, just as Bear stated. Especially so in a keto-adapted individual.
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Heather
Location: near Edmonton
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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So then Dean, what was the run like? Did you feel pain, weakness, fast, slow, good, bad? Distance/time? Need more info... 
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Heather wrote: | | So then Dean, what was the run like? Did you feel pain, weakness, fast, slow, good, bad? Distance/time? Need more info... |
Heather, I had to read this twice!  The first time I thought you said, "So then Dean, what was the fun like?" 
Great to have ya back, Heather!
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- Jimi Hendrix
Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus! |
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
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The run was no different than any of the one's I've done after long periods of fasting, or after several weeks of zero carb. I think glycogen stores are for blood cells. I think AC is doing himself a lot of harm.
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix
Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus! |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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It's been almost 2 years since I've done this. I'm thinking of giving it another go this fall. Now that I know how to run correctly, I know I can do this without suffering the pain I did last time.
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