| Archive for The Magic Bus Trip Never get off the Bus! |
| jeff |
7 Day 4,000 Calorie Per Day-Fat Can't Be Stored ExperimentBeginning Satistics:Height.....................5'8" Weight....................164 Waist......................32 in. Hips........................35 in. Chest......................38 in. Bicep, relaxed..........12 in. Bicep, flexed............13.5 in. Body Fat..................12.1% I'll be posting my food eaten every day. I'll list fat, protein, carbs, calories, etc. |
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| Dave |
Jeff, you missed height. Some people like that stat to determine your cal intake. | ||||
| jeff |
Dave, I was including things that I thought might possbibly change in one week.  But ok, I'm 5'8". I'll add it to the list.
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| jeff |
Day 1
2 cups heavy cream 12 Tbs butter 3 raw egg yolks 14 oz. raw ribeye steak 4115 calories 418g fat 14g carb 89g protein |
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| jeff |
Halfway through day 2. Things are going ok. In one respect, this is a little harder than I expected. Even though 4,000 calories is alot, I am not eating a lot of food. I'd say less volume than what I am use to. And it's a lot of liquid, or semi-liquid. Cruising right along, though. Feeling good. 
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| Red |
Protein restriction is hard. I can't really have more than my RDA without putting on weight and I feel like I hardly eat anything! You could fit all the food I eat in a day in one little bowl. Probably the same bowl I'd fill up 4 times with cereal in one meal back in my fat days.
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| Dave |
how does your body feel? | ||||
| jeff |
My body feels fine. No changes that I have noticed. I feel great. Plenty of energy, very calm and relaxed. 
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| jeff |
Food for Monday, Day 2
1.25 cups heavy cream 2 raw egg yolks 12 Tbs butter 10 oz. ribeye steak, raw 2 oz. macadamia nuts 2 oz. brie cheese 2 Tbs coconut oil 3974 calories 410g fat 11g carb 75g protein |
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| Gazelle |
I can't wait for the results. How do you determine your max protein allowance? By BW or LBW? | ||||
| jeff |
I looked at a variety of sources/methods and just used an average. So this is certainly just a rough guesstimate. |
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| Red |
So what's your exercise regime? Found any difference in stamina, etc.? | ||||
| jeff |
Same as I've been doing in recent months......about 25 minutes of HIIT.....I plan on doing this 5 or 6 times this week.......also 2 days of weight lifting.......already did one day this week, so I'll do one more. Energy and stamina seems unchanged. |
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| jeff |
One o'clock in the afternoon. I am not the least bit hungry, but I have to eat. Oytherwise there is no way I'll get all my calories in. Lunch is 2 oz brie cheese and 2 oz macadamia nuts. | ||||
| Red |
How do you divide up your food? Do you eat the steak all at once? You might have better luck if you divide it into two smaller steaks, both accompanied by lots of fat. Then you won't risk an insulin rise from having all your protein basically in one meal. Maybe you do that already! | ||||
| jeff |
Yes, I do try to split up my major protein sources. I have my egg yolks in the mornng and then I divide my meat between lunch and dinner. Today is an exception for some reason. I'm planning on having some chicken thighs for supper. |
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| Jessica |
Sounds great! Btw, there is a triple cream brie, I think it's called Bellatoille, and it's to die for!!!! Actually I did have a chunk of it before getting my cold/lung congestion and unfortunately was bad for me. :( But it is very tasty! |
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| jeff |
Triple cream brie!!! I'll have to look for that. I'm sure my local Piggly Wiggly won't have it. 
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| Jessica |
Jeff, I found the below when doing a search for Atkins Fat Fast, where you eat mostly fat. Not sure if it is of help to you or not, but I thought i'd post.
Cheers, Jessica a. 2 oz. cream cheese b. 1 oz. macademia nuts c. 2 oz. sour cream plus 1 tsp. caviar on 3-4 pork rinds d. 2 deviled eggs yellow halves (not whites) on 3-4 pork rinds e. 2. oz. chicken or egg salad made with double mayonnaise f. 1. oz. of any of above in ˝ small avacado g. 2-˝ oz. whipped heavy cream with artificial sweetener and vanilla Other 200-calorie substitutes (with quite a bit of duplication): 1. # 1/4 cup heavy or whipping cream in a large mug of coffee (I use this to jump start my day and prevent abuse of those near and sometimes dear to me. In the summer I make it the night before and put it in the refrigerator, then pour it over ice. You could also pour it into popsicle molds and freeze it for Coffee Fat Fasticles. Yum!) 2. # 4 strips of bacon 3. # Peanut Butter Cream Cheese * 1 ounce cream cheese * 1 tablespoon sugar free peanut butter * 1 tablespoon heavy or whipping cream * 10 drops Liquid Sweet & Low (or artificial sweetener of your choice) * 1/8 teaspoon ground cinnamon Blend all ingredients in a small bowl. Serves 1. Approximately 208 calories. ***Note: If you life this one, make up several servings at one time and stick them into the refrigerator in custard cups for individual servings. That way you only have one cleanup. 4. # 2 ounces of cream cheese stuffed in one large celery stalk 5. # 1/2 pork rinds with 2 ounces of sour cream # Pork Rinds With Sour Cream Dip (This is not my recipe - Judi (Island Girl) forwarded it to me.) * 1/2 ounce plain pork rinds (1/6 of 3-ounce bag) * 1/4 cup sour cream * 1 tablespoon grated parmesan cheese Blend parmesan into sour cream and use as dip for pork rinds Without Parmesan: 164 calories, 8 grams fat (79%) With Parmesan: 187 calories, 15 grams fat (77%) 6. # 2 tablespoons of sugar free peanut butter on an approximately 7 1/2-inch stalk of celery. 7. # 1/4 cup heavy or whipping cream, whipped, sweetened with artificial sweetener, and flavored with vanilla or some other extract. 8. # 2 ounces of sour cream on approximately 1/2 cup sliced cucumber. 9. # Tuna or chicken salad with triple the usually amount of mayonnaise. I cook the bejeebers out of a whole chicken in the crockpot until the meat is literally falling off the bones, then shred the meat and save it for chicken salad or for soups. I strain the broth carefully (watch for small bones!) and freeze it. I will usually reuse the broth to cook more than one chicken, which results in a superb, flavorful extra-strength broth which is great to sip on if you're sick. 10. # 2 egg yolks mashed up with lots of mayonnaise, salt, and pepper (like you would for deviled eggs), but eaten plain or with a few pork rinds, cucumber slices, or a celery stick 11. # Peanut Butter Pudding (This is Rani Merens' recipe.) * 2 tablespoons of sour cream * 1 teaspoon sugar free peanut butter * Splenda (to taste) Combine all the ingredients. This thickens up magnificently, and can either be eaten "as is" or partially frozen, but don't let it get rock hard unless you just want to suck on it. ***Note: If you life this one, make up several servings at one time and stick them into the refrigerator in custard cups for individual servings. That way you only have one cleanup. 12. # 1/4 cup heavy or whipping cream in a can of diet soda (any flavor) 13. # 1/2 package sugar free Jell-O in 1/2 cup whipped heavy or whipping cream 14. # 1/4 cup heavy or whipping cream, whipped, with 1 teaspoon unsweetened cocoa powder and a few drops of liquid artificial sweetener added (to taste). ***Note: If you life this one, make up several servings at one time and stick them into the refrigerator in custard cups for individual servings. That way you only have one cleanup. 15. # Jell-O Whip (Someone named Chris sent this to me a couple of years ago.) * 1 small package sugar free Jell-O (any flavor) * 1/2 cup boiling water * 4 ice cubes * 8 ounces cream cheese, at room temperature and cut into cubes * 4 tablespoons heavy or whipping cream Dissolve the Jell-O completely in the boiling water, then add the ice cubes to cool it down and to thicken it. When the ice cubes are melted, pour the gelatin mixture in the blender and add the cutup cream cheese. Whirl it around until the ingredients are completely blended. Pour the mixture into a mixing bowl. Whip the four ounces of cream, then fold it into the cream cheese mixture. Divide the mixture into 5 equal portions, cover each with plastic wrap, and put them in the refrigerator to chill. This makes 5 servings, or all the you need for one day of the Fat Fast. Of course, you wouldn't have to eat all 5 servings in one day. You could alternate them with other food choices. 16. # Cream Cheese Jell-O Chunks (Someone sent me this idea, too, but I've misplaced their name). 10 ounces cream cheese, cut into 20 equal squares (Not softened!) 1 small packet sugar free Jell-O, any flavor Pour the dry gelatin powder into a small bowl or onto a salad plate. Set aside. Roll the 20 cream cheese squares into balls. Roll each ball in the dry gelatin mixture. Place the coated balls on a plate, cover them with plastic wrap, and put them in the refrigerator until you're ready to eat them Each Fat Fast serving is 4 balls. 17. one ounce of macadamia nuts 18. one ounce of macadamia nut butter 19. two ounces of cream cheese 20. two ounces of Brie 21. one ounce of tuna or chicken salad with two teaspoons of mayonnaise served in one-quarter of an avocado 22. two deviled eggs made with two teaspoons of mayonnaise two ounces of sour cream and two tablespoons black or red caviar 23. two and a half ounces whipped heavy cream topped with sucralose zero-calorie syrup 24. two ounces of pâté (check label for fat content) 25. two egg yolks (hard-boiled) with one tablespoon of mayonnaise 26. 1-1/3 ounces of beef chuck (do not drain fat) cooked in 1 1-3 tablespoons of olive oil 27. 1 1/3 scrambled eggs with 1 1/3 strips of nitrate-free bacon 28. 1 1/3 tablespoons of full-fat sour cream with a 2/3 tablespoon of sugar-free syrup 29. 1/6 cup chicken or tuna salad made with 1-2/3 tablespoons of mayonnaise 30. 2 ounces of pâté (check label for fat content) 31. 1 ounce of macadamia nuts |
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| jeff |
Thanks!!! | ||||
| jeff |
Food for Tuesday, Day 3
2 raw egg yolks 2 cups heavy cream 5 Tbs coconut oil 5 Tbs butter 2 oz. macadamia nuts 2 oz. brie cheese 4 medium chicken thighs 1/3 cup broccoli 
4050 calories 410g fat 17g carb 87g protein |
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| Red |
What prompted that little oddity?
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| jeff |
Just to avoid a potential argument with the wife. I figure if I can keep her happy by taking a couple of bites of broccoli, it's worth it.
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| Tracy |
I am eagerly following your fat fest! I may up my fat too...I eat far too much protein. | ||||
| jeff |
Everybody be sure to vote in the poll before Sunday. I'm curious as to what you all think will happen. | ||||
| Gazelle |
There are so many things that can affect scale weight at any particular moment that I'm not sure how I think your weight will change after 1 week. Ideally this experiment should be done with one of those body fat measures where you're submerged in a tank of water (isn't that the most accurate way to measure body fat on a living person?) before and after.
I suppose second best would be calipers, esp. measuring where you know you put on fat first (like, say, your belly). Or you could do it for a whole month! Now THAT would require true dedication to science. |
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| Peter |
A whole month? Jeff'd have to change his name - Vilh"jeff"mur Stefansson. 
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| jeff |
I agree, this is probably not the most accurate method of doing this. \Here's what I think, though. If my weight does go up a couple of pounds, then sure, there are any number of things that may have caused it. But, it seems to me that if my weight stays the same, or goes down, it should be safe to assume that no additional body fat was stored. Does that make sense? It's not like I'm new to low carbing....I've been eating low carb for over 4 years, and close to zero carb for 12 months, so it's not like I'll be losing a bunch of water. And I'm eating adequate protein and exercising, so I'm not losing muscle. That's what I'm thinking anyways. |
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| jeff |
Yeah, I think a month is out of the question.
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| jeff |
I can't possibly eat any more today, so here's day 4.
3 raw egg yolks 2 cups heavy cream 4 Tbs coconut oil 9 Tbs butter 10 oz. ribeye steak, raw 2 oz. macadamia nuts 2 oz. brie cheese 4580 calories 474g fat 17g carb 81g protein I had a pretty good apetite today.
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| Steve |
Jeff,
What if you were to increase your weightlifitng and decrease the HIIT? this may help increase muscle mass..perhaps? |
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| Dave |
Jeff keep away from the brocolli! That stuff is toxic!
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| jeff |
I was thinking of doing that after this challenge. But right now I really don't want to increase muscle mass. |
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| jeff |
It's that damn acculturation and social pressures. |
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| jeff |
Food for thursday, day 5.
1 whole egg, fried 1 raw egg yolk 2 Tbs cream cheese 2 cups heavy cream 3 Tbs coconut oil 4 Tbs butter 2 oz brie cheese 2 oz macadamia nuts 12 oz ribeye steak, raw 4176 calories 422g fat 17g carb 93g protein I have to say that I'm really not sure about the carb number on all of the days. Almost all of the carbs are coming from the heavy cream. I get the carb count from fitday. But, the information on the carton says one Tbs has 50 calories, and that all 50 calories come from fat. I realize that there is some rounding off that can occur. So it's possible that my carbs are much lower.....in fact close to zero......but I'm just not sure. |
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| Gazelle |
Wow. You're doing great sticking to the plan. I still can't wait for the results! | ||||
| jeff |
Thanks. Yes, I'm satsified with how I have stuck to my plan. It hasn't always been easy. The butter, I mostly just eat. Sometimes it is hard to just sit there and eat a half stick of butter, especially when I am not even hungry. Ahhh, the sacrifices I make in the name of science!
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| jeff |
Lunch today is a half stick of butter and 4 oz of cream cheese. How's that for a balanced meal?
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| jeff |
Friday, Day 6 (yay, only one more day to go!!!)
2 cups heavy cream 4 raw egg yolks 4 Tbs coconut oil 4 oz cream cheese 4 Tbs butter 11 oz. ribeye steak 3995 calories 406g fat 18g carb 85g protein |
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| jeff |
I found this post at ALC. Anecdotal, but interesting. But as I understand it, there is no such thing as an absence of insulin. Well there is, but you'd be dead.
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| Red |
No, there's always insulin. I don't really get it either!! I guess it's only 'excess' insulin that's a problem?  God only knows!
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| Jessica |
Jeff, is today the last day? Day 7? When are you checking your body comp? Can't wait to hear how it went!
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| jeff |
Food for Saturday, Day 7
2 cups heavy cream 2 raw egg yolks 16 oz ribeye steak, rare 3 medium chicken thighs 2 Tbs coconut oil 1 small tossed salad 1/4 cup bleu cheese dressing 1 slice cheddar cheese 3 oz cooked ground beef 10 oz merlot (birthday treat) 
4526 calories 400g fat 24g carb 169g protein This is the only day that I strayed a bit. Quite a bit more protein then I would have liked. And a few more carbs than I would like.....maybe....depending on the cream. |
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| jeff |
Totals for the week.
29416 calories. Average of 4202 per day. 2940g fat. Average of 420g per day. 118g carb. Average of 17g per day. (could be a lot less, depending on the cream) 679g protein Average of 97g per day. Using a daily metabolism rate of 2816 calories, I have consumed an extra 9704 calories beyond my body's needs. If dietary fat can be stored, I should have gained about 2.77 pounds. |
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| jeff |
Re: 7 Day 4,000 Calorie Per Day-Fat Can't Be Stored Challeng
Ending Satistics Height......................5'8" Weight.....................163 Waist....................... 31.75 in. Hips......................... 35 in. Chest....................... 38 in. Bicip, relaxed.......... 12 in. Bicep, flexed ........... 13.5 in. Body fat................... 11.5% |
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| Gazelle |
HA!!!! | ||||
| Jessica |
Wow you lost weight, bodyfat, and a measure off your waist... very interesting! Are you going back to your "regular" way of eating?
congratulations! |
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| Gazelle |
I know we can't extrapolate from anecdotal evidence, but man, this really calls into question the whole "calories in, calories out" thing for me!
I'm also inspired to start my own challenge. Even though lower carb eating makes me feel great, I'm not losing any fat. This is because I still end up with a fair number of carbs at the end of the day (from veggies, dairy, nuts, wine, etc.). I'm averaging around 60g of carbs per day. So I'm going to limit my carbs to 20g or less for the next 7 days and see what happens. |
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| jeff |
Yes, going back to "regular" eating. It was difficult to eat that little protein. And I really didn't enjoy eating sticks of butter and spoonfuls of coconut oil. (well, the coconut oil wasn't that bad)
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| jeff |
There is obviously more than one way "out" for calories. They don't necessarily have to be burned. Gazelle, I think keeping your carbs to 20 or less is a great idea, but also watch your protein. It seems that excess protein can hinder weight loss.
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| Gazelle |
Yes, I'm also going to keep protein under 100g per day. If I can do it, probably between 50-70g. | ||||
| jeff |
That should be pretty good. Good luck, and keep us posted. |
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| Red |
Jeff, this is a gross question, but did you have diarrhea from the excess fat? Did you notice the 'calories out' in that respect?
What an awesome experiment, by the way! |
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| Red |
Oh, and did you still drink coffee? | ||||
| jeff |
I figured this would come up. The answer is yes, but not always. Very inconsistant. Very loose at times, very solid at other times.
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| jeff |
Yes, I did still drink coffee. I drank the same amount as always....alot!! |
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| Dave |
Yo jeff,
how's the fat diet?? |
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| jeff |
I ended up losing a pound. I "should" have gained almost 3. |
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| jeff |
Thanks to all those of you who participated in the poll.
1 person thought I would gain weight, but less than I "should" have. 3 people thought I would maintain. 3 people thought I would lose. I have to say I was very surprised that anybody thought I would lose weight. I did not vote, but I would have thought I would maintain. Now the big question: Did I prove that dietary fat cannot be stored? Or did I not store fat because of low insulin levels? My understanding is that insulin is necessary for fat storage. I did have insulin......I'd be dead without it. But, is there a certain amount of insulin necessary for fat storage? Can anybody offer any insight into this? |
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| Jessica |
Hey Jeff.... would it be possible for you to keep tracking your stats for one more week? Maybe there will be a change in the following week, as it takes a lot for the body to make changes? I'd just be curious! 
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| jeff |
Do you mean after a week on my "normal" diet? Sure. I can post all my stats again next sunday. |
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| Red |
Good idea. Also, can you give us a general idea of how many calories/grams of protein/fat/carb you would typically have in a day? It's interesting to compare. You say you reduced your protein by a lot, so I'm wondering how much you normally had! | ||||
| jeff |
Ok, sure, I can do that. |
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| Jessica |
Yup! Pretty please... if you don't mind... Your "normal" diet, isn't that funny to the average public!
Btw, which do you prefer, your regular diet or the higher fat? |
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| Dave |
WOW JEFF!
Simply Amazing! One pound loss and you were forcing the calories!!! And you are already a slim and trim man!! I am stunned at the results! Thanks for doing this mate! |
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| jeff |
I was a bit stunned as well, Dave. I figured I'd maintain my weight....maybe gain slightly, thinking that maybe everything may not have "cleared my system" by weigh in time. I think we can safely say I did not store any body fat.
Jessica, I much prefer my "regular" diet. The higher fat was ok, but because of the protein restriction, I was not eating as much "real food" as I would like. I was having to eat sticks of butter and spoonfulls of coconut oil and chuncks of cream cheese. I would much rather be eating steak, and chicken and fish. |
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| Dave |
So the bear is proven right...yet again. | ||||
| jeff |
So it would seem. Or, could it be that fat could not be stored because of low insulin levels? I've been trying to find some info on this, with no luck. We know that insulin is the fat-storing hormone, but how much is needed? I certainly had insulin, otherwise I'd be dead. I ate protein, protein does produce an insulin response. I drank coffee, coffee I believe produces an insulin response. Maybe we need "excess" insulin for fat to be stored? I have no idea. Bear may very well be right, but it is hard to know for certain. At the very least we can say that dietary fat won't be stored if carbs are low and protein is adequate. |
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| Jessica |
Me, too. :) I think it would be REALLY hard for me as I can't eat any kind of cheese or cream/etc as they make me congested, stuffy, and give me migraines. Sigh, maybe it's a blessing in disguise, but that darn Bellatoile cheese is so tasty!!! 
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| Dave |
Jeff, Dr Atkins says, 'in thje absence of carbs, fat can't be stored'
So the question about the combo remains |
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| jeff |
Yes Dave, I recall reading that in DANDR. At the time, I took that to mean that the body would not store bodyfat, regardless of the source of the excess calories. Is it possible that he meant dietary fat would not be stored in the absence of carbs? |
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| Gazelle |
There's some discussion about this in the comments here:
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.c...low-fat-diet-flunks-another-test/ But you have to wade through all the silly comments. But a few people talk about the inability of the body to burn excess consumed fat. |
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| Dave |
GODDAMN there are alot of deluded and crazy people there. It makes me realise once again just how crazy the low fat vegetarians are! |
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| Dean |
And this is why my WOE is antivegan!
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| jeff |
I like this one.......
— Posted by David Mebane
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| jeff |
Ok, it's been one week since my high fat, high calorie experiment. I've had one full week of "normal" eating. A typical day would look something like this: 3 whole eggs, fired in butter, with maybe an ounce of melted cheese 4 medium chicken thighs, baked 16 ounces ribeye steak 1 or 2 ounces of more cheese 2 Tbs heavy cream (in coffee) This is an average. Some days more, some days none. 2 Tbs butter 6 ounces dry wine (again, average. Some days more, some days none.) 2802 calories 218g fat 7g carb 170g protein 16g alcohol I wieghed myself and took all my measurements this morning. Everything is exactly the same as one week ago........no changes. |
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| Red |
Amazing!
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| jeff |
What exactly do you find amazing? |
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| Red |
That you didn't gain back the pound that you lost. It means it truly wasn't some sort of fluke. You never know - the extra protein your regularly eat could have put you back to where you were before... because your body 'likes' to be at some sort of static weight at that level of calories/protein. But no! | ||||
| Dave |
I dont think the alcohol would affect it much,
but you eat much lower calories, and maintain, but by upping the fat ratio and increasing calories you lose!!! 
What are your conclusions Jeff. |
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| jeff |
I think that minor weight fluctuations (1-3 lbs. per week) can be fairly meaningless and are to be expected. That one pound that I lost on the high fat, high cal week may have happened either way. We just don't know. What we do know is that my body didn't store any fat that week. Then when I went back to my regular eating, even though my protein went way up, my total calories were about 2,800 per day which I figured was right about at my daily requirement, so I'm guessing the excess protein was used for energy, and not stored as fat. | ||||