Becoming a sled dog

runningdog · Becoming a sled dog

Ok. So let's start logging.
I decided to check what's going on with me and dairy.
So I will stay dairy free for at least a week to see if it makes any difference.
So far the same experiment with coffee proved nothing really happend after quitting coffee. (from like 5-6 servings a day to zero). So I'm back to drinking coffee.

jeff

A while back, I didn't give up coffee, per se, but I did switch to decaf. I did not notice any difference, except that I was drinking crappy tasting coffee. So it was back to regular coffee for me.

Keep us posted on the dairy thing. It seems to effect some people much more than others.

kateryna

Welcome

A little dairy (cheese and cream) and coffee don't seem to affect me one way or another. I'm losing anyway. Maybe I'd lose faster is I cut them out but for now I'm keeping them in.

runningdog

I will.

I eat dairy on a daily basis so I should notice something.

http://www.notmilk.com/detox.html
"one gallon of mucus will be expelled" seems like fun

Mongols were in perfect health eating nothing but dairy (no meat) for a few months in every year (depending on region). So let's see.

Why sled dog?

Because I would like to be able to run full speed (speed of ultrarunners) for like a 10-12 h a day eating 10 000 kcal.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsport...oted-super-athletes_10099876.html

After I accomplish it I can get back to living my current not so healthy and rather chaotic life.

y0u

I have done the no dairy thing at times. I do fine with limited dairy, as in 2 oz a day or less. Some people do better with none..or tons..

I don't believe that dairy causes mucus, it's a myth. I can't find any scientific proof that it does. It may cause a temporary thickening of the saliva in your mouth and throat, but that is it.

For me, wheat and all other grains seem to though. I can eat the top off a pizza and not get mucus..but the crust kills me.

It's still a good experiment though, good luck.

runningdog

OK. But something else crossed my mind. What about even better experiment to find out how I react to dairy. Eating nothing but dairy for a week or so.
Just water and full fat dairy products.
If I'm sensitive to dairy it should make me almost autistic by the end of the week, not to mention constipated frustrated and just plain bat shit crazy and I may start to lactate by the end of the week. Seems like fun.

jeff

Could be fun! Bonkers

runningdog

Ok I decided to try the dairy diet. So I'm going to eat nothing but dairy for next 7 days.
Sometimes I wonder why I'm doing stuff like that to myself.
Will post how I feel daily. If I stop it means I went crazy and somebody locked me in somewhere or just shot me down.

MetalMama

This is going to be interesting....I'll be watching to see what happens.

Loops

Hello!

Sorry - I don't mean to be following you around or anything just saw your link to here so thought I'd come along too. I really should get my own journal - oh, wait, I actually have one here already.

All dairy sounds like fun. My guess is not much will happen but you might get cravings for meat? Maybe low magnesium as well? It might turn you into a super human, or maybe a cow....

jeff

I'm thinking you may loses some muscle, since your protein will be a bit low.

y0u

runningdog

runningdog

runningdog

My first dairy only meal was a mixture of : butter, mozarella cheese, cream cheese, ricotta, coffee.
It kept me full for about 12 h. No cravings.

runningdog

runningdog

At the moment I've got some jaw problems. Basically I cannot open my month too wide. So eating cream cheese is handy.
I don't know if it's caused by some ear infection, tooth or just some old problems from being punched too many times.
Anyway if dairy is inflammatory it should make it way worse.

Loops

12 hours is impressive. Jaw pain - Mg? yeah I know I sound like a broken record.

No cravings for meat yet? How much cheese can you eat in one go?

y0u

runningdog

runningdog

Some inspiration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kidOBV7yxY

But don't try this at home since in zero carb world exercising makes you fat and unhealthy.

y0u

I have a friend that has done the Alaskan Iditasport Ultra-Marathon a few times..they make you eat sticks of pure butter.. Grin

I think you should just eat butter for a week and see how that goes for you. Grin

runningdog

Actually my taste is gravitating towards high fat dairy like butter, mascarpone and cream cheese. Not interested too much in eating cheeses.
So maybe after a while I'll be eating nothing but butter. Wink

Butter was o fuel of choice of Vikings during their raids. Add them to Mongols living on dairy and it may make you think that dairy is not that bad after all.

And I did something stupid yesterday. I ate some mascarpone and cream cheese during a day and in the evening I was feeling like eating another cup of dairy fat.
But my fucking overeducated mind told me: you've been biking and walking for a few hours you need to eat some protein for recovery. So since I was not interested in eating cheese at all I've had some pork with butter.

For those interested in bowel movements I want to report that I had one. Sorry not to post more details (consistancy, colour changes etc) but I'm not that paranoid yet. So no constipation so far. And no glue from casein.

runningdog

BTW I find it really amusing that people who try to mimick diet of fur traders and arctic explorers (pemmican, meat only, etc) who were able to do shitloads of physical exertion are so afraid of exercising and claim that few hours of weight training a week make them fat, bloated and weak.

kateryna

I'm not into heavy physical activity so I'm commenting on statements made by other people. I listen to other people's opinions and if they make sense I try them out and see if they work for me. For example, some people tell you to eat beef only because it's the only food that has the highest satiation. I found out that for me I can eat fish, seafood, pork, eggs, bacon and remain full for the same amount of time. It all depends on you personally. I think the reason these people recommend beef is because they love it and not because there is some magic property to beef eating. I don't happen to like beef very much and this way of eating would not be sustainable if all I ate was beef.

So I suppose, you need to find out what works for you.

runningdog

Kateryna I know what works for me I'm just messing around from time to time to learn some new tricks. Wink

Ok so after few days eating mostly dairy:
- no cravings,
- dairy meals actually keep me full longer compared to fatty meat, maybe it just takes longer to digest dairy,
- I developed taste for very high fat dairy like cream, butter, mascarpone cheese, etc;
- no weight change, no bloat, no constipation or other digestion problems.
- too much cheese (so probably casein) in one meal does make me slightly sleepy but nothing serious

So far no addiction to mysterious opioids in dairy, no addiction to casein or lastose. My body decided to live on dairy fat and I agree with that decision.

runningdog

And my jaw is getting better so no inflammation or mucous.

Am I surprised ?
Not really.

y0u

I probably don't exercise as much as you do..but I do exercise for several hours at a time on an empty stomach..and often don't eat for several hours later..It was hard for me to get past the the "must feed muscles protein and or carbs" crap...but I did...my body is quite good at storing it's own fuel..unfortunately. Roll Eyes

Kateryna..on beef. I agree..I think eating a variety is not only healthier..but much more interesting.. Fatty beef is also extremely caloric..which for some women is a factor in weight loss.

Loops

butter is easier to clean off pans than tallow I noticed. I'm really lazy and this is an important factor to consider when cooking.

Despite going no dairy every other day it seems, the other night a friend fried up some provoletta for us - didn't end up eating dinner after that as was not hungry. Cheese seems to really fill me up for a long time.

The effing gardener planted loads of lettuce for us - now we have tons of it. I tried to eat some last night but wasn't impressed. Started to do rabbit impressions - even hub wasn't into it. What IS lettuce for anyway? Maybe we could start to wipe our arses with it - save on toilet paper.

jeff

Lettuce is so you don't have to drink your blue cheese dressing right out of the bottle. LOL

kateryna

runningdog

I was looking through some competitive eating records :

http://www.ifoce.com/records.php

Just to pick a few zc friendly records:

Cow Brains
57 (17.7 pounds)
15 minutes
Takeru Kobayashi

Butter
7 quarter-pound sticks, salted butter
5 minutes
Don Lerman

Chicken Wings, Long form
182 chicken wings
30 minutes
Joey Chestnut

Eggs
65 Hard Boiled Eggs
6 minutes, 40 seconds
Sonya Thomas

Meatballs
10 pounds, 3 Ounces Meatballs/ Carmine's Restaurant at Tropicana Hotel Casino
12 minutes/ Dec. 3, 2005
Sonya Thomas

and so on

Impressive feasts

For those who wonder how a woman eating 10 pounds of meat looks like:
http://www.ifoce.com/eaters.php?action=detail&sn=20

runningdog

And this leads me back to a question what's better in keeping everything in check?

Eating few small meals a day or feasting once a day or once every two/three/whatever days and waiting again till hungry.

In both cases I talk about situation when you don't go intentionally hungry for too long or count calories, etc.

Based on those CE records and some other stories and historical evidences we as humans are capable of eating huge amounts of food in one sitting.
I think 10+ pounds a sitting is a safe range. And it should keep a normal person going for a few days.

BTW wolf is able to eat up to 20 pounds in one sitting.

Maybe it's going to be my next experiment to develop my eating capacity. 65 hard boild eggs in one go seems like something worth trying.

jeff

jeff

runningdog

I always wondered about the the "being lazy" part. Are they getting lazy because they have nothing else to do or because digestion of meat takes so much energy.

jeff

MetalMama

jeff

runningdog

I can finish my dairy experiment.
I think I do feel better when I eat more meat but nothing dramatic happend during this week so dairy will stay on my menu.

I guess eating low fat/higher carb stuff like cottage cheese, etc would make a difference but high fat dairy seems to be fine.
So back to mixed diet.

jeff

Interesting. Thanks for the update. Any change in weight?

runningdog

No change.
My weight fluctuates like up to 4-5 pounds (but no more) if I really overeat but it gets back to my current level as soon as I stop overeating.

runningdog

I had a funny conversation.

Someone told me that he really admires what I do to stay in shape like biking for hours, doing other sports, not being tempted by icecream, pizzas, etc.

But a problem is that I don't do anything special to stay in shape. I don't force myself to do anything I don't like.

I bike and do sports and stay active becuase it's what I like to do.

I don't think in the morning, fuck I need to do those 20 km on bike again to stay in shape. I rather think what kind of music put into my player for a ride and where to bike.

If I'm tired it's this pleasure kind of feeling tired when you are really happy that you pushed yourself so hard. So it doesn't prevent me from pushing hard next time.

Etc, etc.

So I'm kind of in shape because of my lifestyle not the other way around.

As far as eating. I follow one simple rule: I avoid foods that make me sluggish for too long because I don't like to feel sluggish.

I still eat and drink stuff based on taste but I just know my limits.

jeff

I'm the same way with the exercise. I lost most of my weight before I began exercising. Only after I had become thin did I begin exercising. It never seems like a chore. I do it because I like it. It's not something I "have" to do. It's something I "want" to do.

runningdog

Coffee

I'm still not sure if coffee is beneficial, neutral or harmful.

That's a good example of how most of the researches are done today.
There are like 100s of studies on coffee and for every one with positive outcome we've got at least one suggesting that coffee ruins our health. Amazing way to lose time and money.

runningdog

Blood sugar

It also bothers me and I want to test it soon. Basic stuff and we still don't have any idea what it should be like for a healthy human being. Or maybe we do.
Long term zcarbers seem to average about 100 (Bear, Lex, etc) . But I don't like it.

runningdog

Ray Peat on coffee:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/caffeine.shtml

jeff

runningdog

According to him coffee is an adaptogen and powerfull antioxidant and protects you from almost anything.
Add some coconut oil to your diet while drinking lots of coffee and you are almost immortal and you can do anything you want.
Drugs, unprotected sex, working out like a madman or actually being a madman, whatever. You are safe. No liver demage, no AIDS, no herpes.

runningdog

So I'm thinking what to do next.

Maybe doing kind of optimal keto diet so keeping my protein intake in a physiological range and eating fat according to hunger.

I think my dairy week went so well because I craved only high fat stuff and my protein was moderate to low.

jeff

I have heard before that coffee is a powerful antioxidant.

runningdog

So let's throw all the studies out of the window. Coffee, coconut, whatever.

Let's forget about fur traders, pemmican maniacs, raw food and clay eaters, ratios, calculations, starvation mode, casein, insulin, etc.

I know everything (or even more) about the diet. Now I have to forget about it for a while.

All I really need at this point is is to be good at biking, running, swimming while looking good and having the energy for my lifestyle.

So back to basic rules:
1. Hunger means I need to eat
2. Humans need protein and fat and water to be alive. That's it.
3. If something makes me feel and look good I eat it, if it doesn't I avoid it.

So no preferences, no prejudieces.

So I will stop logging my food intake for a while just to reset my mind.
I will concentrate more on my training and progress.

MetalMama

sounds like a plan - good luck!

runningdog

Before taking a break from studies it's the last one I've found:

http://journals.cambridge.org/dow...=41359e74f27cdba2a22b52fd9ff5084a

So both milk fat and to my surprise milk proteins (even hated so much casein) seems to have anticancer properties.

Of course all the conspiracy theory freaks will scream that studies are done on rats and it's probably sponsored by dairy industry, etc

But read and decide for yourself. I know that I keep dairy in my menu.

Dean

runningdog

So Irish coffee sans sugar seems like real nectar of the Gods.
Wink

runningdog

or White Russian

runningdog

BTW most of carnivorous populations were/are very prone to alcoholism.

runningdog

Update:
I feel good, even slightly too good so I need to keep eye on myslef to stay out of trouble.

Mixture of those opiates in dairy, poisons in cooked meats and being high from exercising is really dangerous.

Reasonable people should definitely stick to raw meat only and filtered water. And stay in bad. And die in perfect health.

Dean

I'll have a drink in their honor! Wink

y0u

Ok..so I am trying to figure out how to drink a lot of booze and coffee with coconut oil and have a lot of unprotected sex while eating raw meat in bed and not fall off my bike which I still need to ride 100 miles a week or more.

Ideas? Grin

Dean

Ride your bike to my place. I got a head full of ideas. Devil

y0u

Dean..I have 1/2 a mind to ride my bike to your place and peek under your cloak.. but I have to work tonight.. Devil

runningdog

After reading Stone Age Diet by Voegtlin (great book) I decided to make one modification to my diet: only soured milk dairy products.

So I eat meats, eggs and dairy plus some minor stuff at the moment .
I drink coffee, teas, water.

I may get rid of the minor stuff part to see if it makes any difference and include some dairy products like yoghurt.

I feel good. No weight change. I wonder how much I need to eat to get back to my old 200 lbs.

runningdog

Maybe Mongols were on something eating several pounds of meat in one meal. Maybe there is no other way to stay big on VLC/ZC diet.
I will try to retrain my body to eat a lot again.
The only thing I risk is wasting shitloads money on food and aging a little faster.

runningdog

And I will get rid of coconut oil for a while to see if it makes any difference.

runningdog

Overthinking part II

So I thought that before trying to gain weight it's good to find out how much I really need to eat to maintain my current weight.

VLC/ZC is misleading since you can overeat for a while without any noticeable body weight changes.

So my plan is to get very lean and than experiment with adding stuff back and see if it makes fat layers growing.

Autumn is comming so fattening for winter effect should make it even harder.

jeff

What kind of weight are you trying to gain, muscle?

runningdog

Yes, muscle and it's rather hard at the moment without the feeling of being stuffed with food. And I don't like that feeling.
Maybe rare to raw meat will do the trick. Or raw eggs.

jeff

Are you lifting weights? To put on muscle, lift heavy weights, low reps. To put on muscle you will need to increase calories, but an increase in appetite should come with the weight lifting.

jeff

Hey Dog, you might find this of interest. Check it out.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about725.html

runningdog

Good one. Thanks. Great progress.

I don't lift at the moment. I used to be a gym rat few years ago.

I was thinking about eating 4000 kcal + to gain some weight.

like 20/80 P/F.

jeff

Dean actually lost weight eating like that. I stay about the same. YMMV

runningdog

OK. I need to start somewhere.
So let's start with raw meat.

Good article on wolves eating habits:
http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/overview/overview/wolves.html

runningdog

And this article leads me to what I used to do before: work train and play on empty stomach (or on very little food), eat only when you can rest afterwards.
So warrior diet or whatever.

Finally something I like.

So let's do it.

y0u

I ate 80/20 for 3 or 4 months..not 4000 calories but often 2500..got really high from it...but didn't lose much weight but I did lose some...and lots of inches. Wasn't really exercising though.

I always exercise on an empty stomach..eat a nice meal the night before...ride and lift in the am..eat a meal in the afternoon before work.

runningdog

That's what the fat burning index theory is about.
High fat meals prevent body from releasing insulin (or better to say excessive insulin) so calories don't matter.
If this theory is true it is easier to gain fat on 30/70 compared to 20/80.
But as I recall from Lex experiment he gained fat on 20/80.

runningdog

Great quote from Stone Age Diet:

"This remarkable metabolic mechanism of carnivorous
animals ann man shows how he can be dietetically profligate
when food IS abundant, yet is able to keep in metabolic balance
with no more food than a modest amount of meat and
fat when the going gets rough.
It explains why the low carbohydrate diet is most effective
in weight reduction and why the human can continue to
work, play, think clearly, fight, and make love, even though
he has been hungry for a week. Were man not possessed of
this mechanism,and if he got weak when he became hungry,
he would ineed be a fragile specimen, absolutely dependent
upon a contmuous food supply and totally inadequate to survive
even the first generation, let alone a million or more
years"

runningdog

That's why I believe that for those who are obese the best way to get fit and healthy again is to fast for a while maybe with some protein intake.

So first get lean and fit and when you are there eat all the meat fat and other LC foods you want, not the other around.

runningdog

Another one:

"It is not unusual for an Ihalmiut to consume fifteen pounds of meat in a single day."

Now we are talking. 15 pounds of meat.

Maybe all of us are just undernourished.

BTW I've put a dog of my friend on all meat diet a while ago. She misunderstood me slightly and instead of 2 pounds she fed him like 4-5 pounds of raw meat a day. He's lean and mean.

jeff

I almost always train on an empty stomach. it's normal for me to train 16-18 hours after my last meal. It seems to work best for me.

Heather L

runningdog

So to sum it up:

Ihalmiut guys eat up to 15 pounds of meat a day, some African tribes drink milk by gallons daily, Mongols eat the whole animal during a night feast, even small wolves eat 10+ pounds of meat in one meal.

And I average 2-4 pounds of chow a day and I wonder why I weight less than 160 lbs.

Anybody can see any explanation?

So maybe it's time to forget about raw, cooked stuff and just think about it again when I will be averaging 6-8+ pounds of food a day.

BTW anybody who starts to wonder about my mental health reading my log is about right.

I talk to myslef I talk to dogs I talk to horses I talk to strangers in the elevatators or in this case write someting over net. Or sometimes I just think out loud.

y0u

When the raw dead meat starts to talk back to you I would worry..until then..don't. Bonkers

runningdog

Eating big continued.

What strikes me is that most of us on low/zero carb eat less (volumewise) compared to carb based diet while most of those native carnivore cultures ate shitloads of zero/low carb foods.

runningdog

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescien...newevidencethatrunningisaddictive

So overexercising and eating once a day makes you high.

They have it wrong about second wind bullshit as always and Mr. Kanarek probably never spend a day in his life doing what those happy rats were doing.

runningdog

But it makes me wonder about this one hour. It's what CAD diet is all about.

So maybe huge quickly eaten meal is the solution to staying relatively high and adding some muscle mass.

runningdog

For those who think that fresh meat is the only way to prevent scurvy (whatever scurvy really is since nobody knows) or to feel good on ZC/VLC diet
Guy eating nothing but eggs, butter and milk his whole life:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/eggs.html
Case 2

After Stefansson had told Lord Strathcona what he had learned from the Eskimos, His Lordship told Stefansson that years ago in Canada he had begun a regimen all his own. He told how he had begun to wonder why, since he liked some things better than others, he should bother to eat something different on one day when he had liked what he had eaten the previous day better. 'This led', recounts Stefansson, 'to his questioning what he really did like and, when he got the answer, eating nothing else — eggs, milk, and butter.'

BTW it's with line of Rheo Blair reccomendiations and his claims that eggs/diary is better for bodybuilders than meat.

Not that I'm against meat or something but I just hate stupid dogmas.

runningdog

Good article on Maasai food habits - scroll to point 12 but the rest is interesting as well:

http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Tajikistan-to-Zimbabwe/Maasai.html

What I didn't know is that they had a rule not to mix meat and dairy together in any meal. Sounds familiar? Pretty Kosher.

runningdog

OK so all those ramblings and readings led me to conclusion that for next 30 days I will be eating nothing but raw minced beef with butter and some spices and maybe yolks to taste.

I may add cottage cheese and eat kitfo all month long.
http://www.ethiopianmillennium.com/KITFO.html

If it makes any difference to the way I feel and look I will consider eating this mixture for next 3 months. If not I'll try something else for next month.

runningdog

I have noticed something:
When I keep protein low (below 100 gr a day) my BW is close to 156 lbs. When I eat as much protein as I like (probably 300g+ a day) my BW goes up to 162-164 lbs and stays there. It's not bloating so it means that increased protein intake do saturate my body with something.
I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing it just happens.

jeff

That's interesting. Does the "extra" weight appear to be fat?

runningdog

Hard to tell.
I may try to find out how much protein is my upper limit not to gain those few pounds.

runningdog

2 days of eating mostly mascarpone cheese and pork belly with eggs and I'm back to my lower BW.
Still not sure what it means.

BTW lean meat gives me diarrhea.

surfergirl

hey Runningdog,
How is it going? How much protein/fat are you at now?

runningdog

y0u

Good luck on your horny coconut diet...you'll be humping palm trees in no time.. Devil

surfergirl

Nora

Hi Runningdog-

I think I may be a little behind but why were you trying to get bigger? Bigger as in all over weight gain or just your arm and leg muscles as in weight training style bigger?

Are you mainly underweight and sometimes it goes up a little if you eat dairy or more protein? What did you conclude after your experiment- what was the component that added weight- protein, fat, dairy, maybe wine? or do you eschew all dairy? I know I should but don't.

Interested to know.

Violeta Devil

runningdog