Fun foray fat feast

Sol · Fun foray fat feast

Ok, I'm curious to explore high fat eating. I'm already fairly carnivorous, eating a good amount of raw meat, eggs, and other animal products. I'd like to lose some body fat but I'm not very over-fat so that's not a major concern.

I am very curious to know how my body does with lots of raw animal fat and less animal protein. I've had problems with rough poops with starchy carbs so I'm interested to see if more fat makes them more better! I already notice an improvement from greatly lowering my carb intake and I'm interested to see how well fat does its job as a lubricant!

I found a large bag of lamb fat in my freezer, from the grass-fed lamb I had bought last year so I'm going to start my fat fast by going through that. I'll buy more animal fat before I run out of what I've got. I intend to lower my butter intake (since the butter I buy is pasteurized and I don't feel like spending $9 per pound for raw butter) and eat more raw (or previously frozen) suet and other animal fat. Slanker's, by the way, is a great source of grassfed meat and their fat is pretty cheap.

I'm not planning to get super obsessed about this foray. If I go out to restaurants, or if I'm traveling, I might eat (gasp!) vegetables with meat. And, I'll certainly eat some butter, coconut oil, eggs along with beef, lamb, and organ meats at home. And some homemade kombucha and some fermented veggies.

This morning, my Tanita scale records 161.8 pounds and 22.8% body fat. The body fat number is not accurate. I get my body fat tested every month or two at the gym with skin calipers and last time it was tested, a month or so ago, I was at 18.6% body fat (if I remember correctly) and I know I'm leaner now than I was then. So, I'll report the Tanita numbers to see if they show a downward trend but the skin caliper test plus how my clothes fit is a better indication of leanness.

I do Olympic-style weight lifting so I have a decent amount of lean mass. The tricky thing is for me to lose fat without losing muscle. So, the body fat number is more interesting to me than the weight number.

Anyway, time to eat something fatty!

Sol

jeff

Heather L

Sol- I am always glad to see another weight lifter. I just love it. I wouldn't say that I do Olympic- style, but I do go pretty heavy. I hope your foray into higher fat goes well for you.

Sol

Jeff - I'm glad to hear about fat doing its job. I could kick myself for how many years I bought into the lie that more fiber would help my raw painful intestines to move food through faster/better!

Heather - I just set two new personal records: 47 kg in the snatch and 54 kg in the clean and jerk. These are not big weights compared to competitive lifters but I'm quite happy with the effect on my fitness and leanness.

Sol

Dean

to Journaland, Sol.

Yah... animal fat is where it's at... but, you know that. Cool

Sol

So, I'm curious - how are people eating their fat? My body seems to do fine with pasteurized butter. And, I enjoy omelettes made with coconut oil. I have this nagging belief that raw fat is better but I don't want to be religious about this. I've had trouble with fat in the past so I will be experimenting with raw vs. cooked fat.

I have a bunch of frozen lamb fat. It's pretty tasteless as is. Should I warm it up a bit in a pan? Then what? Should I render it?

Thanks,

Newbie-to-high-fat-lifestyle-trying-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-chunks-of-frozen-fat

Dean

Sol, first off, this IS a religion, didn't the Carnivore Council tell you that when you got your Bus pass? LOL

But, seriously, many have had the same experience eating raw fat. Tasteless. Although, there are some serious carnivores on the Bus that swear by it. I'm just movin' into this one step at a time, myself.

Rendering fat is always a fun way to get fat to use for cooking, in place of expensive coconut oil. Better to use animal fat over plant fat any day. Check this thread on how to render fat.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about122.html

Get fatty meats, like pork. Ask Nicola about that one. She seems to have a problem with it. Bear never at pork, either. I personally don't see the problem with it, but am curious as to what others think about it. One thing I do know, it's very inexpensive and fatty.

Feel free to drop into the Carnivore Cafe and start some discussion threads about these things. You'll get some good answers and ideas, I'm sure of it.

We're all at different stages of carnivorous eating. We're all figuring out how to do it best for our circumstances. Cooked or raw, animal fat IS where it's at. That's in one of the scrolls you should have received from the "High" Council. Wink

Sol

Dean,

This fat foray is going to be very interesting. I will start a thread or three in the Carnivore Cafe on things. One question that comes to mind, which I'll raise at the Cafe, is the grass-fed vs. grain-fed dilemma. While I think grassfed is much better in terms of omega-3s and probably less sludge in the animals' diets, grain fed meat is going to have more fat.

I'll also have to study Aajonus' books and remind myself of his perspective. As I recall, he was big on cream, coconut fat which is a pain to get out of the coconut, and milk for extra fat. I personally don't do well with raw milk - it makes me feel drugged and raw cream is a pain to get here even though it's technically legal in New Mexico.

Yup, this is going to be an exploration for sure!

Sol

Karen

Hi Sol,
Welcome to the journals! I have been trying to figure out ways to add more fat myself. i do eat alot of bacon and use the bacon grease and butter to cook eggs. I put butter on my veggies and sometimes steak. Sometimes i just walk by the butter and eat a tsp of it. i also eat atleast 1 TB of coconut oil per day and am going to start uppping that. I eat 4 ozs per day of cheese and put cream in my coffee as well. I think my fat content for the day is pretty high but i would love have 80% daily. i seem to do really well on high fat i think. I LOVE FAT!! (just not on my body as extra weight..lol)

I remember the Bear saying it isn't necessary to eat grass- fed beef and he had reasoning behind it but i can't remember what exactly he said. You can look in the sticky for the Bear or maybe someone here remembers. If i dig it up ill post it for ya.

Have fun and don't drink too much kool-aid!

karen Happy

Sol

Today was a great day. For breakfast I had some 85% ground beef and Bee Wilder's egg/butter/coconut oil drink. The drink was pretty bland but I didn't use any sweetener and I didn't have any nutmeg.

I didn't eat again till dinner, wasn't hungry until almost dinner time. It's nice to not have to eat every 3 hours.. A couple of friends who are into raw meat came over and we had a yummy potluck in the style of Weston Price meets Aajonus meets carnivore. Here's what we shared:

1. Raw lamb fat. We just chewed on it.
2. V8 raw liver drink. Absolutely yummy!
3. Raw fermented cabbage. Yummm.
4. A bit of high chicken. That's fermented raw chicken, not chicken on drugs.
5. Raw seafood carpaccio. Yummm.
6. Some homemade kombucha.
7. Raw ground bison tartar. Very nice.

One friend brought over some palm oil which I have never had before. It's quite an interesting flavor which I can't even begin to describe.

Plus, this friend also brought over some interesting fermented shrimp/salt paste from the Asian market. Another interesting taste.

I'm getting ideas about how to prepare raw meat to be tasty. Sauces are a great idea. And, I'm getting used to chewing on raw animal fat.

Yes, today was a good day.

Sol

Hi Karen,

Thanks for writing. (Do I get beaten up by the guys if I'm too nice to the ladies on the bus?)

I've not done bacon in a while. If I end up trying it cooked I'll definitely save the grease. That's a great idea.

You've got me curious about the grass-fed beef thing. I'll go look for Bear's argument and see if it makes sense for my body.

Sol

~mina~

no i think you get beaten up by the girls if you are too nice to the guys.. but most of the guys around here seem to like it that way LOL

what is your raw liver v8? im curious.. ive read quite a bit on weston price's page about liver.. i think it is wonderful!

Heart

,

mina

ps: you asked in another thread: the april carnivore challenge is in the Metabolic Wing (forum) Smile

Sol

Hi Mina,

Below are two liver cocktail recipes. They're from Sally Fallon's book, Nourishing Traditions. Sally Fallon is President of the Weston A Price Foundation. I found these recipes posted at http://www.mothering.com/discussions/archive/index.php/t-417251.html

My friend made the first recipe with a few exceptions.

1. He didn't use whey.
2. He added garlic. Yummm.
3. The raw liver was fresh, not frozen then thawed. Sally, in her book, cautions people to freeze meat for a couple of weeks to kill bad things. I don't worry about it.
4. I think he added salt and pepper but I wasn't watching closely.
4. Instead of V8 he used Knudsen's Very Veggie vegetable juice. I imagine that if someone wanted to be more raw they could make fresh tomato juice as that was the bulk of the veggie flavor.

Sol

Pottenger Liver Cocktail
Makes 1 cup

1 small chunk pasture-fed beef or lamb liver, frozen at least 14 days
4-6oz tomato juice
dash of tabasco sauce
squeeze of lime juice
1 TBS whey

Grate liver finely to obtain about 1-2 tsps. Mix with tomato juice, whey and seasonings. Drink immediately.

Raw Liver Drink
Makes 1 cup

1/4 pound raw beef liver, frozen at least 14 days
1/2 cup cold water
pinch sea salt
juice of 1 lime
1/2 cup freshly squeezed orange juice
1 tsp sucanat (optional)
1 TBS whey

Karen

Sol,

No the guys are too nice to beat ya up!
I found some of what the Bear said about the grass and grain fed beef...

Sol

Karen,

Thanks. I'm going to respectfully disagree with Bear on this one. I believe there is value in buying meat from animals who have grazed. The Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio is much better in animals that ate exclusively grass. That's why wild fish that aren't mercury poisoned are so good - they ate algae and plankton and have lots of that famous omega-3 oil. The connection between fish and land animals and omega-3 is that animals that ate lots of green plants (algae, plankton, or grass) have lots of omega-3.

This is just my belief - that omega-3 is better. Maybe I'm wrong and lots of people are doing fine with grain-fed meat. It certainly has more fat.

Sol

Dean

The whole omega 3 to 6 ratio thing is another topic for debate, and I remember it being discussed in Bear's thread. I do know that non-animal foods have a ton of omega 6, so if one avoids those wouldn't they be better off with the balance right there?

I have to say that, to "play it safe", if one ate nothing but raw flesh, fat, and some organs, from wild herbivores they couldn't go wrong. But, how realistic and necessary is that? Bear did believe it was crucial to eat very rare meat and raw meat whenever you could, for the nutrients.

Other great topics for the Carnivore Cafe, huh?

Billi-Jean

I'm undecided on the Omega 3:6 ratio being 'better' in grass fed issue. Probably because I can't find much info or reliable data on it (does anyone have any, incidentally?).

But then, and this is merely my opinion so is in no way intended to come across as authoritarian, I'm also starting to feel that like most things, Omega 3 is a bit over-rated. You know, like all the latest 'super nutrients' that keep getting pushed on us by *certain* companies hoping we'll all feel compelled to get them in supplemental form else suffer some ugly deficiency.

Dean

For me it's like... let me get to the point where I am consistently eating a certain way, and then, when I'm ready to go to the next level, I'll look into that. Wink

Nicola

Perhaps Dr. Groves can help?

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/omega-6-lungs.html

Nicola

Billi-Jean

Thanks Nicola, maybe that's partly where I began to wonder about how much O3 is really needed...

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually hoping that others who know more and have greater experience, like Sol, can help shed some light on the issue. I've only read enough to get totally confused! LOL

~mina~

thank you for those recipes Yup

i also read where you can grate some frozen liver into raw eggs and eat it that way if you like

i just read yesterday that it is mandatory for all liver sold in markets to be frozen.. but i cant recall where i saw that.. Confused

maybe your friend gets it from a farm though

thanks for replying.. talk to you soon!

Dean

Sol

Suddenly work has made me very busy. I'll respond to recent posts in this thread and get those recipes posted in the right place as soon as I get a chance.

Thanks, everyone, for engaging in this discussion. I'll have more to report on my fat fest in the coming days.

Sol

Nicola

PUFAs (omega 3 and 6) have been mentioned in many ways:

http://raypeat.com/articles/

Modern Science has so many +/- !

Dr. Groves told me that our DNA is still paleo (no agriculture and domestication); animal fat and meat/organs from animals that eat a natural diet would have a healthy fat and meat profile. Hens, eggs, Pigs, cows (and dairy)...are farmed; forced an unnatural diet (soya, grain...).

Why eat animals that have eaten plants that our not healthy for humans - and not natural for the animals?

Nicola

jeff

I would agree that eating animals that have eaten a natural diet would be ideal. But, just how much worse off would we be eating the farmed animals that have been fed a somewhat unnatural diet? That is the question, I guess.

~mina~

interesting.. second time today ive read where someone posted about ray peat (and the other post was 2 years old!)

now that you recommend it, nicola, ill search out his blog. thanks.

Karen

Sol

This morning I weighed in at 161.0 pounds and 22.3% bodyfat. That's .8 pounds lighter and .5 pounds of fat lighter than 5 days ago, according to my Tanita scale. Later today I'll have my bodyfat measured much more accurately and I'll report back. I'm guessing I'm really somewhere around 18%.

I've been soaking raw lamb fat in namashoyu (raw fermented soy sauce) and water and that's made the fat much more palatable. Now, onto pemmican to see how I like it. I'll buy some pre-made pemmican first then if I really like it I'll start making my own.

Sol

jeff

Sol. can I ask how tall you are?

Sol

Jeff,

I'm 5'5". Years ago, I weighed 154 pounds and was 9% bodyfat. I don't know that I want to be that lean again but 13% or so would be nice. Once upon a time I weighed 140 pounds but I was VERY sick at the time and was skinny and not healthy. So, 155-162 is a fine range for me, especially with my percent bodyfat dropping.

Sol

jeff

Sol

Ok, I got weighed at the gym and had my bodyfat tested. I was dead on when I guessed I'd be at 18%. Here are my weight and % bodyfat numbers for the last three weigh-ins:

1/3/08 164.9 lbs 19.6%
2/24/08 161.8 lbs 18.7%
4/10/08 161.1 lbs 18.0%

I've eaten virtually no carbs for the last couple of weeks. I'm interested to see how fast my bodyfat continues to go down. I'd like to get to 13% by the end of the year. I think it's doable.

Sol

jeff

Heather L

Sol- 13% does seem doable, given your progress so far. I wish you success. Even if you get almost to 13%, I bet you'll look great.

Sol

Sol

I haven't posted an update in a little while so here goes:

1. I've eaten virtually no carbs since the beginning of April and it's been very easy.

2. The tanita scale reported 162 pounds and 20.7% bodyfat this morning. On April 10th I weighed 161.0 pounds and the tanita reported 22.3% bodyfat. I don't believe the actual bodyfat number from the tanita but I do trust the trend. So, I could be as much as 1.6% lighter than I was 12 days ago (which was 18% then) although fluctuations in hydration (which the tanita also measures) do affect the percent bodyfat reported. In any case, my jeans are getting looser and I won't be needing a coat hanger anytime soon to zip up my jeans. Roll Eyes

3. I had steak again at a restaurant for dinner last night. (Yup, that's two nights in a row.) I noticed this morning that my body smell was much much less after eating meat than it was even a week ago and I'm eating lots more meat (raw, rare, and crockpotted). Yeah!!!

4. My liver continues to calm down. Even with a good amount of fat in my diet, I'm doing well. I did stop the kombucha some days ago and bought some liver-friendly teas but I'm going to wait for a strong intuitive hit before starting to take them.

5. I'm entering a period of less hunger. If this continues, I'll try some IF.

6. Stop signals are really clear these days.

7. While everything is going great, eatingwise, I have to confess that I can't keep up will all the posts, so if I don't reply to your post, don't take it personally, unless you really want to. Wall

This way of eating is answering lots and lots of questions about what is natural for my body. I love it!

That's it for now.

Sol-who-has-not-yet-mastered-emoticon-selection

~mina~

Dean

Sol,

Sounds like you are doing super! Yup

WTG on your ability to easily acclimate to this WOE.

I'm such a sugar addict that it took me years, but, now I find it is easy. Getting over fat phobia is so hard, since it has been drilled into us so much. Giving up rubbish is even harder it seems. But, once you take that step and stick to it, you see why this is the way to go. Finding all the new discoveries of things to eat from the animal kingdom is what makes this WOE fun and keeps one motivated to keep on goin' with it. I think those who try to keep one foot in the past, by doing fake foods and AS and the like, and cling for dear life to rubbish, have it the toughest. If only they'd just let go of the past, take the red pill, washed down with plenty of Kool-Aid, and just embrace Carnivore WOE, they'd find out just how wonderful it really can be. Cool

Thanks for the update, Sol.

Sunny

Sol

Good morning.

One of my favorite things is to obsess about my weight and bodyfat. Here are the numbers from this morning: 160.6 lbs and 20.6. 1.4 pounds dropped away since yesterday (although some might have been water).

My bowel movements seem to getting more normal over the last few days. They're effortless now and come every day or two.

And, I worked out at the gym - weightlifting - last night and I didn't stink after that but had a slight manly smell. Nice. Sunny

Billi-Jean

Sol · On simple eating, making a small footprint, and sungazing

What an unrelated bunch of topics (simple eating, making a small footprint, and sungazing), huh?!?!

I'm feeling inspired to write a journal entry about what's calling me to carnivory that's much deeper than fixing my digestion.

A month ago, when I went mostly carnivorous and largely raw (for the last month my carb consumption has been pretty minimal), I did so because I had an inspiration to do so. I found myself, over the last few months, just losing interest in carbs. It wasn't even about physical health. I didn't realize until the last couple of days that carnivory for me is part of a trend to simplify my life.

I've been strongly in touch with my inner inspiration for a couple of years. When it gives me clear and persistent messages I listen. When it nudged me in the direction of eating fewer and fewer carbs I listened, even though I didn't know why at the time.

Almost a month into this way of eating I see why. Carnivory for me is about simplifying my life, simplifying my thinking, following my heart, and letting go of the chatter of mass consensus telling me what's good for my body and soul

I do think this way of eating is too difficult for most people, not so much physically, but because they are very attached to what society thinks of what they eat and because we've all been brainwashed to follow the herd (but not eat the herd) when it comes to diet. Sunny

I have some of that in me, which is why I'm venturing forth and embracing the May challenge.

I'm simplifying my life. That's big. I'm moving towards fewer ingredients in my meals, fewer things in my fridge, and little in my spice rack. And, I'm cooking much less. I'm being called to do some deep physical and emotional healing that intermittent fasting will support. Herbs will help me on that path.

I've ordered some meat hooks to put in my fridge to hang meat. I'll explore dry aging as well, and I'll be making my own jerky thanks to Lex's wonderful guide to making a jerky maker. As I find myself needing fewer showers I noticed that I still like to be clean shaven so I just ordered an electric shaver (I used to shave in the bath tub.) I've got 1/4 cow coming and some meat, fat, and bones from Slankers - all great things for my 20 cubic foot freezer. Smile

I do own a 4 bedroom house that I live in alone. I think it may be time to get some housemates and continue to make smaller my personal footprint on the planet.

About sungazing - I learned about it years ago, and practiced it a bit for a time. Yesterday, I was inspired to go for a walk. I don't go for many walks these days but I just felt to walk. It was around 5:30, the sun was getting low in the sky, a couple of hours before setting. I was called to gaze into the divine source of heat and light. During my walk I soaked up several minutes of direct eye contact with the sun. No, I wouldn't recommend that anyone start this way. Know what you're doing or have a huge inspiration before sun gazing. And, no, I didn't go blind or suffer any adverse effects.

I wonder if sungazing is easier for those of us with cleaner bodies, just like skin cancer is supposedly not a risk for those of us who don't have toxic crud near the surface of our skins. I don't have answers - I just know that the sun is calling me just as the animal kingdom is calling me. And I feel that these callings are all part of my healing, of my treading more lightly and more gratefully on this marvelous planet of animals that give their lives so that I can eat, be healthy, and give back to the planet.

Sol

~mina~

Sol

Mina,

Thanks for your support and encouragement.

Sol

Billi-Jean

Inspiring post, Sol. Yup

I totally agree about the yearning for greater simplicity and freedom from the chaos and clutter of all the wants and desires of modern life that constantly bombard and 'drive' us.

I found that I was drawn more and more to keeping my eating as simple as possible. Giving up herbs and spices and other seasonings has not been nearly a tough as I thought...after a while the idea of changing the natural flavour of meat just doesn't appeal like it used to.

Thanks for sharing! Sunny

Dean

Sol,

I'm glad to hear you are getting things more simple for yourself. I too have experienced this. I think it takes time to break from the herd, as you say, but, the more we do, the easier it gets to live life in a much more sane and meaningful way.

Being a mass consumer of unhealthy junk, just to support the chaos of the market system, does not give one the real happiness they are looking for. I love the simplicity of eating what I evolved to eat, instead of eating slave food, which is what the cultivation of carbs was, and still is, all about.

Hope to hear more as you progress on your journey to freedom and peace of mind. Cool

Kristelle

Great words from Sol. Thanks! Sunny

Best of luck on your journey and hoping things will only get better with every passing day.

Heather

That's deep dude!

I love sungazing, I've never heard that phrase before, I thought I was odd by always drawn to look at the sun. Sunny

~mina~

lol thanks for stopping by my journal Smile

beef whiz.. LOL.. I actually tried to come up with something witty.. but.. im blank. LOL

that would be so gross if you could spray out beef like whipped cream! nasty.

youre hilarious! visit again soon Smile

~mina~

hi sol, hope youre having a great weekend!

Sol

Hi Mina,

Thanks for the kind words. I was going to leave a note in your journal but I can't find it. Have you stopped journaling? Sad

Sol

wifezilla

~mina~

Sol

I had a couple of dreams last night about this way of eating. In one dream I ate some oatmeal cookies, realized that I would get 0 points for the contest day, felt sad about that, then wondered if somehow maybe those cookies might not have any carbs in them. The second dream was about my eating some gumdrops. Interesting dreams, especially considering that I have zero cravings for any carbs.

According to my Tanita scale, my bodyfat is dropping. As I've reported before, I don't believe the actual numbers (they're too high) but I do believe the trend. In a couple of weeks I'll have another bodyfat test at the gym and will report that number. Here are the numbers since I started logging them. Note, that some of the Tanita readings have a 3rd number, hydration percent. I always take my Tanita reading naked right after I pee in the morning. I notice that my bodyfat level is reported to be lower if I'm more hydrated so I'm now recording that number to be able to make better comparisons.

I've been less hungry the past few days, eating lots of bone broth, and not tons of other calories.

Here are the numbers:

4/5/08: 161.8/22.8
4/10/08: 161.0/22.3 (18.0% at gym)
4/22/08: 162.0/22.7
4/25/08: 162.6/21.6
4/26/08: 161.8/21.8
4/27/08: 162.6/21.4/56.0
4/28/08: 162.4/21.2/56.1
4/29/08: 162.2/21.5/55.9
4/30/08: 162.6/21.0/56.3

5/1/08: 161.0/21.6/55.8
5/2/08: 162.2/22.7/55.0
5/5/08: 161.8/20.7/56.5
5/6/08: 161.4/20.8/56.4
5/7/08: 163.0/20.1/57.1

The trend looks really good. Sunny

Sol

jeff

Looking good, Sol. You're obviously losing fat and gaining muscle.

Heather

Interesting trend. Yup

~mina~

dropping in to say hey Smile

have a great day!

Heather L

Sol- What method did your gym use to test bodyfat? Your progress is looking steady. Great job.

Sol

Mina, thanks for the jumping frog. Sunny

Sol

So, I keep forgetting the "fat" part of this foray. Especially, now that I have 250 pounds of grass-fed beef that's pretty lean I'm going to have to consciously find ways to get fat into my diet. Plus, I want to use animal fat more than butter, especially raw animal fat.

I made a drink with 4 eggs and raw lamb fat. That tasted pretty good, especially with a little salt.

Does anyone have other ideas for getting extra raw animal fat into one's diet.

For a while I may also record my protein/fat ratio as I'd like to get to 80% fat in my diet and see what that feels like.

Always experimenting.

Sol

~mina~

hey sol!

I got a message that said you sent me a PM but there wasnt one there.. maybe you didnt send one but if you did you might want to resend it Smile

have a super day!

Nicola

Hi Sol,

the Argentine beef I get is from the hip; it has no visual fat other than that in the meat. It tasts nice (wild) and to add fat I use raw marrow or suet (I get the lamb/goat suet in little vacum bags from my butcher). It's all fresh and we have a lot of lambs, sheep, goats out in the feelds so I can see that they live a pastured life.

Paleo meat would have never been fatty like grain fed meat.

Nicola

Sol

Hi Nicola,

Thanks for the response. How do you "use" raw fat? Do you just grab a chunk and chew it, do you slice it and lay it on top of your meat? I've found that if I put some raw fat into some warm (cooked) bone broth that the fat has a nicer flavor than if I eat it plain. Because the broth is warm, and not hot, the fat doesn't cook but it does pick up the broth flavor.

Sol

Sol · More pee woes

So, I notice that if I eat much less protein my pee doesn't smell bad AND I'm not fatigued in the afternoons - at least that's been the case the last two days in a row. So, I'm hopeful that 75-80% fat is going to work for me.

But, now I notice a different problem, which I think the hunt for the cause of the smelly pee was obscuring. Sad

I'm finding myself peeing a lot, including in the middle of the night. And, sometimes when I feel like I need to pee it doesn't want to come out. And, to be complete, there's NO burning when I pee.

I have a hunch that this might be a bladder infection or a urinary tract infection. I recall having symptoms just like this once upon a time when I was consuming too many juniper berries - which deal with urinary stuff. But, I've not had any such berries in quite some time.

I wonder if the rapid change in diet to zero carbs has gotten my body out of whack.

Has anyone experienced this? If so, did it go away on its own? Did you do something about it?

Thanks,
Sol

Nicola

Sol

Time for an update.

It's fun to observe my body going through different phases.

A week or so ago I consciously changed my fat:protein ratio of calories to be about 4:1 (i.e. 80% of calories from fat). Ever since I did that my mid-afternoon fatigue is almost completely gone and my bladder discomfort is about 80% gone. And, my pee doesn't smell. Sunny

What's been working really well for me, foodwise, is to cut up beef and cut up animal fat (both raw) and put 4 ounces of beef and 1 1/2 ounces of fat into little (2 cup) pyrex storage containers and refrigerate them as individual serving sizes. Then, when I'm hungry, I take one or two of those containers out of the fridge and pour warm bone broth over them. The warm broth adds flavor and minerals, it gives me that nurturing feeling from having soup, and the warm broth gives the fat a nice consistency without cooking it or the beef.

I'm making bone broth all the time with whatever bones I can be collecting from meat or buying at the farmer's market or online from Slankers.

I guesstimate that 4 ounces of meat is 20 grams of protein and 80 calories -- more if the meat is fatty but this grass-fed meat I've been eating is quite lean. 1 1/2 ounces of lamb fat is 360 calories. So, these little containers give me 360 (or more) calories from fat and 80 calories from protein or about 82% calories from fat. I'll play with the ratio as I gain experience with this fat foray.

The first few days I did high fat I had some gas. Now that's been calming down.

The most interesting recent discovery is that my pee is no longer that really dark color. Even when I added lots of fat to my meals, my pee used to be dark, although high fat made the smell go away. Now my pee is not dark or smelly. Very interesting.

Constipating is a thing of the past, even if I don't have a bowel movement for 2-3 days at a time. It still comes out pleasantly.

The one interesting thing that hasn't changed recently is body composition, according to my Tanita scale. Now that I record hydration level together with bodyfat and weight I notice that at a particular hydration level my bodyfat hasn't dropped in a month. With all the body changes going on, I'm not concerned. As my body is healing and learning to use a healthy fuel mix it obviously has other priorities than to drop a bunch of fat right now. I'll just try to be patient. Sunny

jeff

Thanks for the update, Sol. Things seem to be going great for you.

Nicola

Hi Sol, sounds very interesting; you consider things carefully.

What is your opinion on extra salt - I don't mean for taste. To digest protein and fat we need stomach acid. Some say they add salt, but don't know why others say we don't need extra salt...

How do you get on with water now?

Nicola

AlexF

Hi Sol, how's it going?

In my experience, dark urine can be lightened up with higher water consumption. How much water do you drink per day? Do you take vitamin/mineral supplements? Vit C, B vitamins etc. can color your pee in crazy ways.

~mina~

dropping by to say hi!

Heart

Heather L

Sol- I'm glad some of your body issues are resolving. I think your body will probably start shedding fat again soon. You seem like you are doing very well. BTW, I am making some broth today. I think it's yummy and soothing to the stomach.

~mina~

Sol · Sol checks into the Metabolic Ward

So, I'm back from my trip to Korea. It was awesome. And, I'm glad to be back on VLC. This morning's Tanita weight/%fat/%hydration is 168.2/17.1/60.4. That's 7.2 pounds higher than my weight 11 days ago. That should be mostly water weight so I'm not concerned. I'm going to give myself a couple of days to do carnivore without counting calories then I'm going to aim for 1600 calories per day with 300 calories from protein and 1300 calories (81%) from fat. Plus, I'm going to add interval training to my exercise (beyond the weight lifting) to burn some fat.

If by 7/1 I'm back to my pre-Asia weight then I'll have six months to burn 10 pounds of fat by the end of the year. That'll put me somewhere between 12 and 13% fat which will be just fine. 10 pounds in 6 months is 1.67 pounds per month which is a 195 calorie deficit per day. This should not be tough at all.

Sol

~mina~

welcome back! hope you had a great time Smile

feel free to share piccies Yup

Heather L

Sol- Glad your trip was awesome. Happy

It sounds like you have a solid plan to undo any damage from the trip. It sounds like it should work well.

jeff

Welcome back, Sol. Yeah, your 7 pound weight gain should be mostly water, so not a big deal.

Your weight loss goal seems very doable. Good luck!

Sol

Thanks, everyone, for welcoming me back.

Mina - I have no pictures. I've never been into photography.

So, this morning I weighed in at 164.6/20.1/57.1. I've dropped 3.6 pounds since yesterday. So, now I'm only up 3.6 pounds since before my trip. Tomorrow I start calorie counting. And, a friend and I are going to rock climb (in the indoor gym) 2-3 times per week. That'll burn some calories.

I've not yet decided how I want to lose those 10 pounds of fat. I could diet seriously for 3 months and be done with it or diet one week on and one week off for the rest of the year. I'm going to start enthusiastically at a good pace and see how it goes.

Does anyone have a sense of how much of a calorie deficit one can create and not cause the body to go into starvation? I believe that with 1600 calories per day plus weight training plus rock climbing and some interval training that I should be fine.

Sol

Dean

Sol,

Welcome back! Cool

I think you should aim for no more than 1000 calories a day deficit. That would shed 2 lbs a week. It's probably even more advisable to do like 750 per day, for a 1.5 lb loss. Some just do 500 a day for a 1 lb weekly loss. Of course, on VLC/ZC, you will not be able to gain, so, you can stall for awhile, then go back to losing for awhile. And, calorie cycling may help anyway.

The closer you get to your goal, the harder it will be, cuz your metabolism will shift down to hang onto that last bit of fat. That's when all these hormonal tricks have to be used, like CKD and such. But, if you are not wanting to go to those freaky lookin' "body builder" extremes, then you shouldn't have to deal with that issue anyway.

The one thing to keep in mind is making sure you get the essential nutrients in, and that is the real advantage to carnivore eating. The animal fat and protein is so superior to any other type of food, and for obvious reasons, since it's what we evolved on.

Good luck, and, I'll tell ya, I'm right there with ya, buddy. Yup

Sol · Calories in grassfed meat

So, today I'm starting my calorie counting phase. This morning's weigh-in is 164.0/18.7/58.5. My water level is a bit higher than before so I figure, after the water melts off, that I'll weigh 162-163 pounds which will put me 1-2 pounds heavier than when I left for my trip. Not bad.

I have a problem, though. I have no idea how to compute calories in various cuts of grassfed meat. The meat I buy is pretty lean. The USDA nutrition database numbers seem really high fat-wise even when I choose the "trimmed to 0% fat" figures. I assume that's because even 0% grainfed meat has some marbling of fat. This grassfed stuff has very little marbling. I've ordered a bunch of raw butter to have with the meat to increase fat (I also have raw animal fat) but I don't know how much fat to add.

Aajonus has an interesting dieting technique with raw ground beef which I may apply to other cuts of meat to avoid calorie counting. If I remember correctly, you make golfball size balls of ground meat and eat one each time you're hungry.

In any case, I may end up eating 4 meals (or more per day) and let myself feel a bit hungry between meals. Or, I may start by doing 4 meals a day of 4 ounces of meat plus an ounce of fat in each meal while monitoring weight and %bodyfat to see if I need to lower/raise my caloric intake.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Sol

jeff

There's a good chance you won't feel hungry between meals.

Dean

Sol,

The most successful and easiest time I had with losing body fat was five summers ago. I was eating about once a day, hardly ever more than that. I had no appetite to do any more. I was eating meat, mostly, with a few VLC veggies thrown in for some flavor. I was also hiking my ass off all over the Black Hills. I got down to the lowest weight and body fat in my adult life. That was back in my "paleo" days, where I wasn't eating any dairy at all. I had intended to add back in all those "healthy" fruits and veggies and nuts and seeds, after like one month of "induction". Roll Eyes

Of course, as soon as I did, my body fat climbed and climbed right back up. Yup

Ditchin' the dairy is always a great way to lose, cuz all those fat calories are out of the picture. Now, how healthy is it to do lower fat? Maybe for a short spell it isn't too bad, as long as it's not super low levels like Kimkins. It sounds like you are not eating much fat, since your meat seems so lean. BTW, where are you getting this grass-fed meat that has been trimmed so much?

My plan right now is to go easy on the dairy, and to eat leaner meat, since I have some to eat up anyway. Also IF. That is a great way to keep calories in check. I think as long as one gets enough calories in every day, then IF is really healthy. I don't think our bodies need to have constant feedings to keep our metabolism up, but, big time calorie restriction for a long time, like over weeks or months is probably gonna cause our bodies to react by slowing our metabolism down, and throwing our bodies into starvation mode. But, eating just once or twice a day, if that is something people wanna do, is not gonna do the same, provided they get the adequate calories in. That is what's important, getting the necessary calories and nutrients in. Giving our bodies long breaks from digestion is a very healthy thing. Grazing is for cows. Wink

Nicola

I ride 3 hours (there and back) to Germany and get Argentine beef from the hip; tastes good/wild and I can add my own fat (suet and organs) to tast and state of mind...

Getting your food threw physical activity works on the brain - yes activity tells you a lot; no fibs Devil

!

Sol · On IF

Thanks Dean, Jeff, and Nicola for your inputs.

Dean - I bought half a cow from a local farmer. It's grassfed and very lean, probably not much more fat than those (ugh!) boneless skinless chicken breasts. I wonder if the butcher trimmed it to have even less fat. My next bunch of cow will come from Slankers.

Yesterday was not a good day for cutting calories.

I'm getting curious about IF but I have one concern - how will my liver handle a big pile of fat all at once. If I do one meal a day of 1600 calories then, depending on the percent of fat I might be eating 1200 (75%) or 1280 (80%) calories of fat all at once. 1200 calories is a stick and a half (6 ounces) of butter, maybe a bit less since the meat will have some fat. Of course, I can do suet or animal fat instead. I'm not attached to butter.

For those of you who do IF, have you had to build up that amount of fat? How long were you doing fairly high fat before going to IF? Have you had liver pain doing IF?

Also, any thoughts, if I'm going to do one meal a day, which meal I might want to do and why?

Thanks.

Sol

Heather L

Sol- I have not done the one meal per day IF. I prefer to split mine into 2 meals within about 5-6 hours. This distributes the load on the body more evenly. I still get the benefit of a longer fasted state, and easier reduction of calories. This might be an easier way to sart out, in my opinion.

Of the IF people I have interacted with online who choose one meal per day, most were more likely to experience the pain of simply being too full before consuming all their calories than from any other issues. If they go with just the one meal it is usually supper. HTH

Sol

Heather,

Thanks for the response. When you do two meals a day 5-6 hours apart, what time do you have your two meals?

Sol

Heather L

I usually eat about 12:30 and 6pm. This way I don't feel full by the time I head to bed. I prefer not to eat too late at night, for better digestion and sleep. I have moved my eating window many times to go along with social events.... for example 2 pm and 7:30 (eating at an event), etc. I try to just be flexible with it so that it doesn't become too much of a "drag" to follow.
Though it may be a longer fast, I don't think I could handle the one meal per day on a regular basis, as I know my friends would get all weird about it if they noticed me skipping meals every day. It just isn't worth hassling with explaining to people, if you know what I mean.

Sol

Heather - Thanks for the data. I hadn't considered 2x/day IF. I will experiment with it both ways and see what works. I hear you on the "freaking friends out" thing although in my case I'm most likely to eat dinners as part of social events so 1x/day IF might work fine.

I really like the idea of IF from the perspective of giving my digestive system a rest and I bet less digestive work will translate to deeper and faster healing of my body from all those years of painful fiber.

I haven't eaten since 11:00 this morning. 10 hours later I'm just barely hungry. I think I'll wait till tomorrow to eat again.

Sol

Sol · IF rocks!

Eating two meals a day with 800 calories in each meal is really working well for me. I ate only once on Saturday, twice Sunday, and I'll have two meals today. I've discovered, and others have said the same thing, that grazing really sucks. If I eat lots of small meals then I'm hungry a lot. When I eat these 800 calorie meals I'm not hungry for lots and lots of hours. Wow!

Next on my list is HIIT (interval training). I'm committed to burning off those last vanity pounds. I'll probably do it 3x per week for 20 minutes each time. I'll try different ratios of sprint and recovery times until I find something that gives me good results.

Oh, and by yesterday morning I had burnt off virtually all of the extra weight I picked up on my trip. That's not bad, burning off two weeks worth of diet free fall in just four days.

So, I'm REALLY liking this combination of carnivore+IF+calorie deficit. I bet adding HIIT will help lots as well.

Sol Sunny

Heather L

Sol- Great job burning off those vacation "extras". Congrats. Thumbs Up

jeff

Sol

jeff

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/ftopic137-0-asc-650.php

Sol, if you're interested, here's a liink to my journal where I kept track of my ZC, IF, Reduced Calorie, and intense exercise week last year. It starts on June 25.

Sol

Jeff -- Thanks. It was fun to read of your week of drastic weight loss. I don't think I'd want to lose 8 pounds in a week, unless I was sure it was all fat. I think it's very difficult to lose that much weight in a week and not have some of it be lean mass. But, congratulations on your focus, drive, and on letting your body know who's boss. Sunny

IF rocks. I've been doing 2 meals a day, although not always in a 6 hour window. I'm feeling lots of energy and my hard gym workouts are going great. Those folks who think everyone needs lots of carbs to be strong are full of something.

I just got my interval timer from gymboss.com. I'm going to try it out (you can program it with 1 or 2 intervals) and see how it works. I don't think I want to do something as painful as Tabata at first so I'll just play until I get the right workout.

I'm down a pound in the last 3 days. Given that my goal is to burn less than 200 extra calories per day, I'm going at over 5 times that rate and I'm not officially starting with my "let's get to 12%" body fat campaign until July 1st. Plus, I'm losing weight even though I have 4 quarts of raw cream in my refrigerator. Sunny

And, I'm definitely enjoying how much less hungry I am when I do fewer bigger meals.

Sol

Dean

Congrats on your success with all this, Sol. It's truly inspiring. Cool

Yah, IF is the shit, huh? I have been doin' just one nightly meal, and, it's so convenient, not having to mess with food all day. I'm never hungry. The body does adapt. I still feel it is really good to allow our bodies a break from the task of digestion. I know I feel much better for it, and, it sure keeps cals down while losing. Yup

Keep us posted on your progress. It's great to read about.

Sunny

Sol

Dean -- thanks for your support.

Meal #1 today was at around noon, right after my raw cream arrived. Sunny

I ate a bunch of the cream, and nothing else. I guess I ate enough because I wasn't hungry again for like 8 hours. Sunny

I'm not inspired yet to do one meal a day because the thought of consuming 1600 calories in one sitting is intimidating. Now I eat 1/2 pound of quite lean raw meat and typically some raw animal fat (all in warm water with Nama Shoyu (raw fermented soy sauce)) for each of my two daily meals. Maybe a pound of meat at once and 4 or so ounces of animal fat might be ok.

And, my liver is doing great. Almost never any discomfort and when I do feel some it's incredibly minor and doesn't last very long. This continuous liver flush is working great. Sunny

I'm too driven to burn off those vanity pounds to let cream run my life. So, I'll use it in measured amounts (except for today. Sunny

)

jeff

Sol

Dean

jeff

Sol

When people ask me which diet I'm on I can tell them I'm on WHICH:

Weight lifting
High intensity interval training
Intermittent fasting
Calorie restriction
Hunter way of eating
Sunny

Dean

Sol,

Does this start up some Abbott and Costello skit?

Questioner: So what diet are you on, anyway, Sol?

Sol: WHICH diet.

Questioner: The diet you're on now.

Sol: WHICH diet.

Questioner: Yah, which diet are you on?

Sol: I'm on WHICH diet.

Questioner: I have no idea, that's why I'm askin' you.

Sol: The WHICH diet.

Questioner: Are you having problems hearing today? I'm just askin' which diet you are on.

Sol: I'm on WHICH diet.

Questioner: Well, that's exactly what I'm tryin' to find out, Sol.

Sol: Can't you understand? WHICH diet.

Questioner: Well, once I find out, I'll let ya know, how's that. Wink

Fun foray fat feast

On simple eating, making a small footprint, and sungazing

More pee woes

Sol checks into the Metabolic Ward

Calories in grassfed meat

On IF

IF rocks!