| Archive for The Magic Bus Trip Never get off the Bus! |
| Dean |
November 30 Day Let's Get Real ChallengeI need to get serious about getting away from CARBS! They are poison. Worse crap imaginable.
I propose that anyone who wants to enter this challenge must post any and all fuck ups throughout the entire month of November. Don't be shy. Just post anything you feel you should not have put into your body. I am SICK of eating junk!  It's killing me and making me feel horrible! 
Who's with me? Let's GET REAL! 
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| Dave |
Okay bud!
I will be in. I will post any F-ups!! 
My fiancee is away for a months (working in Providence USA). So there will be temptations to cheat! |
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| Dean |
Yah, but you don't have to record that kinda cheating! 
J/K. I know you'd never cheat on her.
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| Bobi |
Great idea, Dean...that will get everyone back on track. Until Turkey Day, that is!!!
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| Rich |
IN 
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| Jaime |
I've already passed my Turkey day so you can count me in for November. I've actually been searching on various boards for a challenge because I have been cheating so badly....and not on the BF either....and like you Dean, I feel like shit. So, what are we eating?
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| Dean |
Whatever you think would be good to eat. But, if you stray... you have to report it here. No matter what the gory details may be. This could be pretty hard to watch. But, it is gonna keep us totally accountable. So, dig in and stick with it, even if you mess up... just fess up, and get back on it. Can ya hang with that? Consider it dietary struggle group therapy... with an audience.
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| Jaime |
Yes, I can hang with that. I really need to get back on plan and being accountable to anyone would help me a lot. I prefer not to be accountable to my boyfriend (too close emotionally even if he does have my best interests at heart and is extremely supportive), so I am liking this idea greatly.
I'm going to do a meat, fish and egg diet and keep to that. I will post my full menu in my journal and HOPEFULLY whenever I go out to eat with Mike, I won't screw up and end up consuming something I should not (like a Chocolate Thunder From Down Under at The Outback ).
The only time I ever eat out is when I am out with him. On my own I prefer to have my meals at home. |
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| Dean |
Jaime,
I'm the same way. I live two blocks from a 24-hour major grocery store, so I never even drive to get food. I just walk over and get meat on sale, or half & half for java. I never eat out. Period. If I did I'd be in trouble. IFing and zero carb are the only reason I can maintain. My slip ups need to be brought under control, though. 
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| Jaime |
Ironically, I live two blocks from one 24 hour grocery store and a 30 minute walk away from another.
This will be a good week to start this. I just checked the store flyers for the upcoming week and both stores are having excellent sales on meat, fish and seafood. One store is having an excellent sale on avocadoes....5 for $1.97 and I am wondering if I should pass that deal up or not. I am a little worried about the eating out but the good thing is that I can talk to Mike about this challenge and he won't have a problem with me participating in it. In fact, he will no doubt support me and he lets me get whatever I want on the menu even if he is paying for it. 
He knows how much I need to lose this weight and he is a former lowcarber himself who got down to his goal weight eating mainly zero carb. This should be good. I'm all excited Dean!!
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| Dean |
OK. To get ready for the November Challenge, I will list the foods that I will be eating.
Any animal flesh, fat, organs, and bone broth. At this point I don't care if it's cured, processed a bit, or what have you. Things like pepperoni, hot dogs, bacon, whatever. Just have to get back to carnivorism. Lately I started eating lots of different brats. The ones with cheddar cheese inside, and the hot italian ones, etc. They were on sale awhile back (less than half price), and again today. So, I've stocked up on those. They are wonderful to grill a bunch, and then have them ready to heat up. They are mainly pork meat (maybe all pork) and spices. They are nice and fatty. I love 'em. I also have a ton of kc strips I got on sale a ways back. They were so dirt cheap, I just had to stock up for the winter. So, I'm set to go in the meat department. I've been eating these kc strips with lots of butter and garlic, and raw inside. Eggs, eggs, and more eggs. Soft boiled, hard boiled, fried, omelets, "pizza" omelets, scrambled, raw, in smoothies, etc. I've always loved eggs, what can I say. I just don't do deviled eggs anymore. Quit the mayo. Won't go back. Any low carb dairy. Butter, any cheese, cream cheese, sour cream, half & half in coffee, etc. I recently found that dairy does not cause me the issues I once thought it did. So, bring on that wonderful animal fat. Mixed with meat or eggs, like on burgers or in omelets, cheese rocks! Any herbs and spices. The more the merrier. Spice up that meat. I'm thinkin' turkey with lots of good spices. Duck, chicken, etc. Wow. Being a carnivore is gonna be the best! 
A few veggies like sliced black olives and mushrooms sautéed in butter put into "pizza" omelets. Some whole shrooms and some baby carrots put into crock pot roasts or stews. Aside from those three, I can't think of any veggies I care for. And, it's pretty rare to be eating these anyway. Berries and coconut milk in smoothies. Along with raw eggs (or perhaps just the egg yolks), these are nice treats to have now and then. Hot sauce for chicken wings, a little A1 with roasts/stews. But, typically I will avoid condiments. I will refrain from any and all vegetable oils. I truly think those foreign fats are what are killing us in a big way. Butter and home-made tallow and lard are what I will use. Coffee and wine. I only drink 20oz of coffee each day. It's good coffee, made even better with half & half. And, wine is about 3-4 glasses per week. That isn't even a consistent thing. And I'm still doin' the IF thing. It's so ingrained in me now, I just don't see the point in stopping it. I will eat one or two meals in the evenings. I'm gonna start the resistance training, so getting enough calories is gonna be the challenge. Well, this is a pretty inclusive list, but, like Jaime, if I think of anything else, I'll post it.
Onward toward my antivegan, antiexpert diet!
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| Jaime |
Just so you guys know, I am starting the November Challenge tomorrow but November 1 will be my official start date.
Something kind of happened today (to me) and I need to get this weight off NOW. I'm also going to redo my food list a bit. Jaime (feeling like crying but doesn't want to show her dissapointment) |
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| mae_west |
Yipppppeeee!Hi everybody!I fell prey to some scones and I have been in dietary hell ever since. I am still doing my slow burn strength training, but no fat loss to show off the new muscle. I will be glad to be accountable to someone!!!! And especially you fellow busers!! I had my turkey day already as well, but I think I will buy some anyway and do it again! Mae |
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| Jaime |
Re: Yipppppeeee!
I bought one the other day and cooked it. Now I have a ton of cooked turkey in the freezer in individual half pound freezer baggies. I'm going to use it to make turkey soup. |
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| Dean |
I've got a HUGE turkey in my freezer that I am gonna thaw. It's gettin' to be that time of year. I turkey! Jaime, I freeze it that way too. I could never eat all that turkey in time.
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| Dean |
Re: Yipppppeeee!
Hey there, Mae! Jump right in and join us. It should be a fun month!
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| Jaime |
With just my youngest son and I living here most of the time (oldest son comes by for a few days and leaves again ) the two of us could never eat so much turkey. I love buying the biggest bird I can find and cooking it. Then I get so much meat from it. It is awesome and lasts me a while. I even save the cooked pulled apart carcasses in the freezer until I am ready to make soup out of one. Do you do that too Dean?
I'm getting paid on Wednesday. I think I might buy a couple of turkeys. I love turkey too but it needs to be cooked right. I HATE a dried out bird. My mother cooked them that way for years and that turned me off turkey until I became a mom and learned how to cook properly (through trial and error mainly). About 45 minutes ago I had a meal of dark turkey meat heated up in butter. I'm so full now.
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| Dean |
I used to do that sorta thing. I should get back to that. I wish one of you bone broth experts would post some of these instructions in the recipe section. These soups sound wonderful. I could even tolerate a few veggies thrown into this pot, just for "flavor" and "seasoning". Got no illusions of gettin' any nutrients out of this plant food. It's just for flavor. But, yah, the bones and fat in those soups are wonderful stuff. |
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| Jaime |
Yes you should get back to it. Yes, yes, yes and yes!
I'm not a bone broth expert. I just boil the crap out of the carcass in equal parts of chicken broth and water. Once all the bones are removed and whatever meat is put back into the soup I will add one (just one!) shredded carrot and a chopped up stalk of celery and some garlic. Lots of garlic, freshly ground black pepper and some dill for flavour. If I have them I will also add a half an onion....finely chopped and cook that until the veggies are pretty much mush. If I need more turkey I will add a baggie of it from the freezer while I cook the veggies, adding more water and broth if needed. I love my homemade turkey soup this way. Hungry yet? 
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| Dean |
Yes.
Jaime, you should post that in the Recipe section, in the Poultry forum. Sounds very wonderful.
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| Jaime |
I had some carb cravings last night so I just went to bed. It was midnight anyway. Slept until 3:30 am and then had to get up for the washroom.
I cannot sleep anymore so I thought I would come here for a bit. The carb cravings are gone (for the moment) and I just ate a half pound of ground beef so I am full and currently working on my first tea of the day. I'll eat the other half for lunch. |
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| jeff |
I'm in. 
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| Billi-Jean |
Yup, this challenge sounds fantastic! I'm in too!
I'm going to aim to stick to meat, eggs, fish, poultry, animal fats and small amounts of cheese. I don't seem to react well to seasonings of any kind (perhaps my body will tolerate them again once it heals a bit) so they're out too. The only exceptions for me will be the salt already in cheese and the canned sardines and salmon that I sometimes eat. Oh, and I'm still undecided as to whether to give up the coconut oil and the very occasional EV olive oil I pour on to canned fish... |
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| Red |
Hey Billi-Jean! Long time, no post for me, I know...
My recommendation would be to give up the olive and coconut oils. Some people can do well with them, but having just read that you are doing much better without spices and seasonings tells me that you're probably just like me and have a sensitivity to phenols and salicylates in particular. That's part of the reason why I had to go zero carb, rather than just low-carb like some people. Vegetables and fruits are very high in phenols and salicylates, which cause a whole host of symptoms, such as hypoglycemia and that constant 'need' to eat and binge, like we have. Spices, although almost free of carbs, tend to be very concentrated in natural chemicals that really do have a strong effect on appetite, mood, skin, digestion, etc. etc. Which is why some people do fine on zero-carb and some don't do as well. They have to go that extra step and eliminate all plant toxins. Olive oil is very high in phenols and coconut oil is incredibly high in vasoactive amines. I would stick to the meats and fats you've been eating. The only seasonings that are natural low-chemical are garlic, chives, saffron, vanilla and just plain natural salt. If you're going to experiment with any seasonings, try those first and see if you do well with them.
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| Billi-Jean |
Red!!  Heya honey, so great to see you!!
Damn! That makes a lot of sense! Thanks so much for the suggestions! I think I might hunt around and re-read some of your posts. I recall you've mentioned some of these things in more details at other times. I've been absolutely baffled as to the differing reactions I was having between eating a piece of meat with seasonings/ herbs etc and say the same meat eaten with no seasonings! |
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| Red |
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| Billi-Jean |
Well, it's the 1st Nov 'down under' so I'm up and running!! heehee,
So far so good, I've made it through the first 2 hours!! (hey, I'll get my little victories any way I can! )
Oh, and just to make it official, as Red pointed out may apply to me, I'm not going to have any veg oils, so coconut oil and olive oil are OUT! Certainly won't miss swallowing spoonfuls of coconut oil at least -gag, stuff tastes like eating a semi-solid coconut flavoured candle! Had 3 eggs for brekkie with 2 Tbsp butter, 3 Tbsp chicken fat and a can of sardines (packed in spring water of course). Oh and black coffee (which I've finally come to prefer without milk or cream!) |
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| Billi-Jean |
I ate some brazil nuts!! 
Must be the pressure of knowing I'm in a challenge
I probably just set the RECORD for the shortest length of time sticking to a challenge!!! ...let's see, I got up at 9am or so and had the nuts at 3pm -heehee, a grand effort of 6 hours!!!
I ate about 100gm of the darn things! Good news is, they haven't given me any cravings or negative effects that I can detect, mood is stable, energy still stable, stomach feels a little heavier than usual but that's probably coz my system doesn't handle fibre too well. Not happy about the unbalanced Omega-6: Omega-3 ratio either but, hey, at least my body seems to have improved in the way it tolerates deviations. Ah well, confession's done and I'm jumping straight back on track like it never happened!!
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| Ryan |
I eat brazil nuts every day. I consider them a supplement, not a food. If you can limit yourself to 3-6 nuts a day, they are incredibly healthful. They are the best natural source of selenium and very high in magnesium. So, unless you ate a pound of them, you were just being healthy, not cheating.
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| Billi-Jean |
that's definitely a better way to look at it , Ryan!
Rest of the day's gone well, I ate 2 big fatty lamb shoulder chops for dinner and I think I'm done for the day
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| Dave |
I'm still sticking to zero carb, I'm probably in my third week. But there was some 'divergence in the force' if you will. Strawberries (depression) and sugar alcohol chocolate bars (bought by sabotaging mum).
I have been eating cheese and packaged meats (lower carb). Is that bad? |
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| Dean |
Dave,
Sounds like you are doing very well at this! That's awesome! Keep up the great work! 
I went to the park today and got in a lot of exercise. And I haven't had any food today. IFing, as usual. I'm determined to keep on track for this November Challenge. I went to the large butcher shop a few miles away and got lots of goodies. Got some cow liver, some pig brains, lots of pork belly, and 10 lbs of pork fat to render into lard. My place is gonna smell so wonderful. While I was getting these things, a woman was purchasing this huge slab of something. I asked her what it was. She said that it was the entire pork belly that was just cut off a pig. She had such a smile on her face. That whole slab of good pork fat looked so good. Most of the people that shop in this butcher shop buy all sorts of pork and beef cuts, and with ALL the FAT on them! Of course, this neighborhood has mostly Hispanic and African Americans, who are much more into keeping their cultural heritage in tact. This only goes to PROVE that this is the way we ALL should be eating. This is the way we ALL WERE eating, until the fricken' seed oil companies decided to put out all those false "studies" showing that animal fat causes heart disease! That has got to be one of the single most damaging things ever devised in the entire 20th century. It ushered in such unbelievable crap that is still with us to this day. All sorts of false information that has been propagated in the name of "health". It's nothing short of a fricken conspiracy. Look what it's done to the health of so many in the industrialized nations. Traditional food, as Sally Fallon and others have pointed out, includes lots of animal fat. It's really the cornerstone of a good, healthy diet. But, try saying that in a nutrition class or in any medical clinic. They will look at you like you are insane. But it is THEM who are insane. Sorry for the rant. But it makes my blood boil. I've just had to hear so much of it over the last few years. While I watched these same people sit around, constantly eating carbs, and get fatter and fatter. It would be comical if it wasn't so tragic.
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| Bobi |
I'm having Cod and Red Snapper on the grill in about an hour.
Coffee with heavy cream Green Tea. That's it for me today. Staying away from chocolate, my personal November 30 Day Challenge! I had to buy a new computer, I couldn't recover from my latest crash. It was 5 years old. My track record is one new computer every five years. What a stressful time I've had the last couple of days. 
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| Dean |
Sorry to hear about your computer problems, Bobi. 
I've got this personal goal to see how long I can run this machine I built 7 years ago. I've slowly replaced every component, but the motherboard, processor and memory. I just recently found a guy on craigslist that had the same motherboard. I went and grabbed this motherboard, with a processor, an 80 gig hard drive and CD-ROM, in a nice case with a good power supply. I got all this for $50. Now, if my motherboard or hard drive go south, I can swap boxes in a few minutes and be back up and running. I'm really curious how long I can keep this old machine going, but don't want to be caught without a machine to use when it does quit. I'm glad you are in this November Challenge. That grilled fish sounds wonderful. Keep up the good work!
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| Bobi |
Wow...7 years!!! What upset me the most, even more than losing data, was losing my music! iTunes was great and let me get all my last d/ls again.
It's nice to have a challenge outside of work, don't you think? How are your classes going, btw? |
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| Billi-Jean |
Dean, I heartily second your 'rant'!!
Next to sugar, seed and veg oils are pretty near as scary as far as I can see. And, along with sugar, they are the true culprits of the modern health crisis endemic to the last 40 years or so, yet we keep getting them shoved at us as healthy!! It's only because all the damn sugar/grain and veg/seed oils are cheap to produce and have a huge profit margin compared to real food like meat etc...sigh, always comes down to greedy business strategy so, by definition, regardless of how 'dramatic' it sounds, it is a conspiracy
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| Dean |
Well, as the first day of this Challenge comes to a close (for me, in this timezone ), I'm glad to report that I only had one very large beef burger with lots of hot pepper cheese. This guy was swimming in fat. Badger style eating.
I got out and did some major exercising today. Out in the sunshine. This helps me to get serious. So, I did it. Not used to it, sad to say, but I did it anyway.
Tomorrow, I'm gonna render PIG FAT! It's gonna smell SO WONDERFUL! I can't wait. And, hopefully the pig brains will be thawed. They came in a frozen container. I've never made brains before. I've only eaten brains once. I'm pretty sure they were sheep brains. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to cook these? And, does it include lots of butter and garlic?
Oh, I'm gonna close this day with a nice glass of 
That's what them Badgers would do, right?
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| Billi-Jean |
Dean, CONGRATULATIONS!! Awesome day!! 
Check out this link for cooking pigs brains... http://www.pinoycook.net/cooking-...pigs-brain-and-eggplant-frittata/ ...sounds yummy to me, even just the simple idea of dipping them in beaten egg and frying in lard!! Let us know how you end up cooking them! |
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| Bobi |
Mahi Mahi, grilled
Coffee and cream Green Tea Stayed out of the chocolate last nite!!! |
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| jeff |
Well, that's what I would do.
Day 2 of the Nov. challenge. Nothing but meat, eggs, cheese, a small salad and a little wine. Day one was the same. |
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| Billi-Jean |
Day 2 went by without a hitch, I'm pleased to say!
Into day 3 I go...haven't eaten yet, not hungry. |
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| Dean |
Day 2 was the same food. Coffee, brats, fatty cheese burgers, hot dogs, some wine. Not the cleanest food, but it's movin' away from carbs. Hey, it's Badger Food! Very few calories. But, don't wanna count those anyway. Never did like doin' that!
I'm gonna fry some piggy brains here real soon. Might do some type of scrambled eggs and brains, or some omelet or such. Never made these before, but they probably taste awesome. And, of course, there's that pork fat rendering and Hog Cake cookin' goin' on this weekend. Watch for it!
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| Jaime |
Hi Dean
I got your message in my journal and yes, no news *is* good news. I'm doing fine but I am a little preoccupied right now with getting ready for college. I start this Monday. |
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| Dean |
Jaime,
That's great to hear. And, yes I know how stressful college can be. Come visit when you can.
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| Billi-Jean |
Day 3 was fine I had eggs, bacon, cheese, lamb chops, butter and coffee.
Bacon isn't ideal, I guess, but I didn't seem to have any problems with it that I couldn't handle. I did feel a bit like I wanted to keep eating more and more of it (salt seems to do that to me), but I could resist that urge fairly painlessly. Actually I found it a bit too salty now that I've cut out adding salt to my food...still yummy though!! Jaime,  way to go staying on track!!
Hope getting back to college all goes smoothly and stress free, too!
Dean, you're doing fantastically!!  Damn, those brats sound delicious! And yes, please do let us know what those pig's brains are like! I'm so curious to know what they taste like and what kind of texture, etc, they have!
Bobi, congrats staying away from chocolate! 
I soooo look forward to the day when we all don't have to break into a sweat every time a sugar craving comes sneaking up on us!! Wouldn't it be nice to just casually flick the craving bug off our backs and say "Pffft, chocolate? Erkk, that stuff tastes like crap!!"
jeff, excellent work -as always! You seem immune to those pesky craving bugs...they mustn't like the flavour of your blood or something!!
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| Bobi |
Fish, grilled, cucumber, tomato, onion salad (1C), coffee with heavy cream, and lots of green tea and water. Went go-cart driving with family.
No chocolate, just salad...because I like cukes, tomatoes and onions with oil & vinegar dressing. 
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| Dave |
Going good guys!
Nothing to report because I've been good! woooot! |
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| jeff |
Thanks Billi-Jean. Yes, for whatever reason I do seem immune to the craving bugs, for which I am very thankful. If I feel the "urge" to eat something, meat or cheese or even coffee with heavy cream will satisfy my just fine. Still on track for Nov. Day 3 was a variety of meats, eggs, coffee and heavy cream. |
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| Dean |
Dave, You are WAY ahead of all of us! Well, maybe not jeff. But, I heard he wasn't human. I think he's a badger.
But, everybody is doing so well. Congrats, congrats, congrats! 
I didn't eat much today. Just had a few brats and a burger with cheese. Tomorrow I'm gonna start rendering all that pig fat, and hopefully make some pig brains. I hope Red posts some pointers on the Hog Cake. Wanna do that stuff up right!
Yah, I can hang with this WOE no prob, as long as I get some tasty treats in, like my java at the beginning of the day and a bit of wine at the end. I must admit, the herbs and spices are what make this WOE easy to stick with. I include that hot sesame oil, chili oil, black vinegar, red vinegar and all that other stuff that makes Chinese (or any) cuisine taste so good in the list of "seasonings", along with hot sauce for chicken wings, and all the other countless great seasonings for all sorts of different ethnic dishes and such. Bear was big on spicing his food. With 47 years of carnivorous eating, I can see why. Without doing that, even he would have not been able to keep going with it. 15 days of unseasoned meat was all I could stand, let me tell ya. Sauces and spices and all that good stuff are what makes it easy to stick to animal food. Meat, eggs, cheese. Even some shrooms and other low carb veggies can be looked at as "seasonings". The main thing is to keep carbs and fiber as low as possible, and to make sure animal fat is kept high. The rest is just creativity in the kitchen, huh?
It's Badger Food at it's best.
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| jeff |
Did you know that Badgers are not native to Wisconsin and are rare here if there are any at all?
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| Dean |
That's cuz all you Wisconsinites hunted them into extinction! After that you went straight to raising dairy cows!
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| jeff |
Yes, but we kept the badger as our mascot because "Wisconsin Dairy Cows" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "Wisconsin Badgers".
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| Dean |
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| Alex |
I guess 'condiments' and 'seasonings' are the same... So far I haven't had any problems with eating on plan, the reason I didn't join you in this challenge is because it's my moms birthday today (4th)
Actually it wasn't that slow, just jumped right in and so far so good. I mean if you can do this, so can I . After reading Dean's list of food I figured that it's very doable (except for today, that is) and so far, all I get is envy, like: "Hey, can I have some of that too?"
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| Billi-Jean |
Yeah, guys, I can't wait to start adding back condiments and herbs and spices to my meals (you're right Dean, it does get rather monotonous, I mean, even though I've come to appreciate the flavour of food that is unseasoned, I can hardly imagine being this strict for too long!!  Imagine never having Spicy Chicken Wings again!!  ).
But, I'm pretty hopeful, the way my digestion etc, has improved so quickly, that I'll soon be able to play around with seasonings again! And then I'm gonna party!!
Alex, Happy Birthday to Mom!!
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| Dean |
Alex,
Please join in the fun!
This is very doable, actually. I for one must have a variety of tastes and textures, and my mission is to seek those out. I wanna keep adding more and more to my repertoire of close to zero carb cuisine. I think anyone can eat carnivore and love it, as long as they figure out what it's gonna take to do it. For me, to keep on track, it helps if I am eating things like bbq beef ribs, chicken hot wings, pizza omelets, stews, smoothies, brats, and don't forget that infamous hog cake!
Any condiments, like hot mustard, hot sauce, or like that Chinese dip I'm about to try, are all gonna help add flavor to otherwise boring meals. People think that we carnivores are giving up so much, but we should look at it like there is so much to explore and discover with culinary delights we haven't even thought of. That's my goal, anyway. And, I keep moving toward the way I wanna eat, and a way that I feel is healthy. One example is giving up soy mayo. I love deviled eggs, but they had to go. There are so many other treats to indulge in, that this was just a mental thing to get over. I can keep giving up things, as long as I can add in some new stuff. But, yah, variety is very important to me. I couldn't do this thing if it meant eating the same old boring food, and never having the chance to taste different things. Whatever keeps me very low carb is gonna keep me much healthier than I would otherwise be. If that means a few toxins from certain condiments, herbs, spices, coffee, wine, or what have you, then that is the trade off that makes sense to me. If one can go without all these foods, and just eat plain meat and eggs, they might be healthier. But, if it is driving them insane, and they are on edge all the time, constantly craving real junk food like donuts and ice cream, and then breaking down and consuming that crap, I don't see where that can be healthy, physically or mentally. Hop on into this Challenge, Alex. Sounds like you are doin' wonderful!
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| jeff |
4 days down, and no forbidden foods. | ||||||||||
| Dean |
Same here.
I guess all of us are doin' great on this Challenge. That's amazing. A dozen of us all eatin' on plan!
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| Jaime |
<THUD>
I fell off the wagon this weekend right into a whole lot of Chinese Food. I'm back on track today but I know what the problem is. It's the relationship with the boyfriend and I am feeling lonely and very much neglected and naturally hurt (and NO I am NOT the needy type) so of course what do I sooth those hurt feelings with? Food!...and not what I should be eating either but instead I eat all the crap that made me fat in the first place and is continuing to make me fat. Bleh. I hate feeling the way I am feeling. |
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| Bobi |
Jaime, just start all over again and don't give a thought to what's past. The BF issue, sorry, I have no advice. | ||||||||||
| Dean |
Jaime,
Aint it a bitch to use junk food to cope with shit?! I HATE when I do that. But, yah, I do that.
So, I know how it is, believe me.
Dust yourself off, and hop back into this Challenge with a vengeance. You can do it. It can be done.
Hey, at least we don't have to go to a detox, and start all over in some residential treatment program! I guess things could always be worse, huh?
BTW, how's college? Don't ya love all that fricken studying and assignments you have to do?! I'm so knee deep in the crap, I'm just swimming upstream all the time. 
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| Dean |
Day 5 has been interesting. I have only had 3 brats, and just now a small glass of wine. Gotta go fix myself some eggs fried in tallow, topped with some hot pepper cheese from the Badger state!
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| Jaime |
I wish I knew how to QUIT doing that because I absolutely hate it. I'm so weak. 
I believe you. 
Cue theme from the Six Million Dollar man.
Yes they could be worse. I could be going to rehab over and over and not knowing where in the heck my underwear were.
My start date got pushed forward until Spring 2008. This is a really popular program at the college and tough to get into. I'm still on the waiting list for a spot. In the meantime I think I am going to do some schooling through correspondence but I am not certain what course to pick first.. |
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| jeff |
Dean, if you keep that up we may have to make you an honorary Badger!
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| Dean |
We aren't "weak", we just haven't found and developed other coping skills, so we keep relying on the same ones. I used to smoke like crazy when under any stress. It took a whole year to get off that bad habit (coping mechanism). But, I knew I'd probably start using junk food instead, and that's why I was trying to check out various WOE. I gained a lot of body fat in the first year of being smoke free (going the vegan route ). Then, thankfully, I discovered low carb paleo eating, and have never looked back. It's the only reason I never gained tons of weight. I can't imagine how screwed up my health would be right now if I had continued eating SAD or even the Food Pyramidiot Diet.
What's really the bitch, is that eating carbs will cause even more anxiety, and then the downward spiral begins. I get caught up in that behavior and it's like water swirling down a drain. I get sucked right into the sewer. The best trick I know to get off the carbs is to eat copious amounts of animal fat. That has the most calming effect on me. This is Day 6 of Animal Fat Heaven, and I'm doin' much better with the whole thing.
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| Billi-Jean |
Day 7 now for me, all is still well!!
Yesterday I went to a bbq...LOTS of carby stuff EVERYWHERE! My God, the tables were virtually groaning with breads and different salads, and roast potatoes and pumpkin, corn, savoury pastries...
You guys will be pleased to know I only had a momentary twinge or two of longing and feeling 'left out', but then quickly managed to remind myself that it was all just crap in a pretty disguise, and then I was fine!
I sauntered out to the bbq to 'supervise' the cooking of the steaks to make sure I got one that was only just seared and totally raw inside, and then proceeded to eat it with great delight (to the horror, it seems, of surrounding vegetarians and meat-eaters alike!). "Eewww...", my brother yelled, "That's RAW!!!" "Eewww....", I yelled back, laughing, waving at his plate of greens, "That's cow's fodder!" My bro isn't vegetarian, by the way, he was just teasing, but the whole incident did get some people eyeing off their vegies curiously (especially those who had only dutifully piled their plates, due to a nagging sense of 'nutritional obligation'). Anyway, a surprisingly open-minded discussion ensued about diet and what humans evolved to eat, and the bias etc, of modern 'studies' and causes of disease. It was so bizarre to see quite a number of them willing to reassess the standard beliefs -almost made me hopeful that things could change!!...Of course they ALL then proceeded to hoe in to giant fruit platters piled with watermelon, grapes, berries etc, as well as other sugary desserts and cakes!
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| Dean |
Every week I have to be around platters of cookies and cakes and all sorts of pure sugar treats. And, I watch people scarfing this down continuously. Most of them are so obese you wonder what is going through their minds. But, it's all totally "normal". Soda pop, pizza, cakes, cookies, salty snacks, you name it. I never touch any of it. People wonder why. I just tell them I fast most of the day. They don't understand. I don't explain. What would be the point? I'm so outnumbered. 70% of the population in these parts are obese, not just overweight, but obese. I've gotten nothing but grief every time I've tried to explain this WOE. So, I'll just keep my mouth shut, except when putting animal food into it, and "let them eat cake"!
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| Billi-Jean |
This morning, Day 8 for me, for some unfathomable reason, I woke up and had a "green" drink -it's called Vital Greens and I used to take it as my vitamin and mineral supplement...I don't know what possessed me, really, maybe just that damn ingrained phobia that I've been fed since birth about the terrors of deficiencies that 'must' result from a lack of fruits and vegetables in the diet? I guess my subconscious was gradually pecking away at me that after nearly 3 weeks of zero fruit and veg I 'must' surely by now have started to develop 'deficiencies' even if I wasn't manifesting any 'signs' of them as yet! 
Damn, I hate this constant battling against all the nutritional dogma that so insidiously rears its ugly head even in those of us who know logically what BS it all is! 
Anyway, so I had this drink -okay, it only has 3 grams or so of carbs and about 1.5 grams of fibre, BUT already I'm burping and bloated and uncomfortable, and I don't even think it's the carb and fibre that's primarily doing it (because when I eat animal products such as cheese, eggs or oysters, or even a handful of nuts, I certainly get more carbs and fibre than that and don't feel awful like this!). It really makes me take even more seriously the contention that "plants are actually toxic", at least, perhaps, for those with particular issues related to compromised digestive systems, or endocrine systems or whatever. I'm sick of 'worrying', whether I'm consciously aware of it or not, that I 'must' supplement with vit C or what have you. Part of me is so sure the supposed studies and subsequent RDI's for these things is at best based on dodgy data or experimental procedures and deductions, but it seems a lifetime of having fruits and vegetables held up by all as "miracle foods" that are "essential" for good health, is not so easily vanquished! So, anyway, I won't say I've actually 'blown it', per se, since it's not like I've had sugar or any substantial carbs -this "green" drink is just 1 Tbsp of powder that you mix with water. I'm trying just to put up with the discomfort
******************** I just stopped mid-post and made some eggs with butter and chicken fat to eat, with a tin of sardines and a big piece of cheese and that seems to have already squelched some of the burping...yep, I think it's helping Right, well the rest of my day will be right back on track with NO damn veg toxins!!
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| Dean |
Billi-Jean,
That's why I gave up all supplements. Red was saying how some of these can actually be bad, because they are unnatural in the ratios of nutrients, but they also contain lots of artificial chemical crap, etc. I just decided that getting proper nutrition should be eating animal food. I feel if I eat raw eggs and some liver and brains and perhaps some other organs or what have you, I will end up getting enough nutrients. I also wanna eat raw beef quite a bit. But, I think the most important thing is to steer clear of as many artificial things as possible. That would be all plant food, all vitamin pills, all supplemental whatever, etc. So, I am slowly giving up things that I really don't need anyway, like soybean oil (mayo), coconut oil, cod liver oil, multi-vitamin/mineral tablets, etc. The closer I can get to eating raw animal flesh and organs, raw eggs, etc, the more I will get the actual nutrients my body can use. And, the less junk I put into my system, the less my body will have to deal with foreign toxins. I am trying to minimize these. Coffee, wine, any plant matter, most condiments (probably all condiments), and even herbs and spices are probably on the list of toxins to avoid if possible. So, the more I can cut down on these over time the better. Of course, the other side of that coin is to make sure I don't cut down too quickly and end up getting so bored with my WOE that I just give up. I think it takes time to unlearn a lifetime of brainwashing.
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| Billi-Jean |
Thanks Dean, I think I really needed to hear that right now.
I didn't realise how deep the fear ran, and it seems the more I am truly committed to this WOE for life, the more the old belief system fears actually surface
Brings to mind Gary Taubes talking about how, in spite of all that he had learned, as he looked down at his plate of bacon and eggs, he couldn't help but feel that somehow, some way, they would jump up and kill him (or something like that anyway )
My stomach has felt a bit acidic all day today, and I swear I'm still burping that green stuff even after, what, 8 hours or so. My god, it was only 1 Tbsp for crying out loud!
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| Dean |
I drink 20oz of java with half & half every morning. This stuff goes right through me. My body rejects it. I've tried giving it up before, and may try again. It is just something I have become accustomed to doing. It's like a crutch. I think it's hard to rid ourselves of these crutches, but I think it can eventually be done. But, it's important to understand the necessity of having some sorta crutches. We all need ways to cope with reality. That can be hard sometimes, depending on our situations.
It doesn't surprise me that our bodies reject any toxins we put into them. And, we all have toxins coming in. So, if you can learn to do without a certain toxin, then you will be better off. I'm convinced that animal flesh and fat are not toxic to our systems. The more I can base my diet on these foods, the better I will be. I don't get hungry eating this type of food. I don't have cravings for anything when I eat this type of food. I am gradually moving toward an exclusive diet of this type of food. But, I always remember that even Bear never got there. So, perhaps it isn't possible to do. But, to minimize the toxins, I think must be the real secret to health. And, I think we all realize just how toxic and unnatural dietary carbs are, in any form. |
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| jeff |
I agree, Dean. Completely eliminating all toxins is not going to happen. I guess we all need to decide what is an acceptable level for us. | ||||||||||
| Dean |
Have had no appetite at all. I did not eat until after 7pm tonight, and then I just ate a half pound fatty burger with lots of hot pepper cheese melted on it. I don't know how I'd do excessive calories on zero carb. Man, that would be so hard. So, jeff, how are we gonna prove that in the absence of carbs, one can consume all the animal fat they want? Is it ever gonna be possible to prove this? Or does it even matter?
Fuck it! We'll never get published this way!
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| Dean |
I've been sautéin' lots of mushroom slices in much butter... mucho butter, yes. Just wish they were the magic kind.
So... gonna do up some liver. Watch for a new recipe to appear in the Red Meat forum. I wonder how anyone could not want to gravitate toward carnivorism. Oh, must be the Atom Heart Mother album... never mind....
Just one of those nights.....
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| Dean |
I cooked up a pound of bacon. I have been cruisin' around tryin' to find liver recipes. I have decided to merge several ideas into one creative mess. This is how the great shit gets produced, you know.
I'm gonna make some kick ass liver dish. At least I hope it turns out that way. I've never made liver before. I just hope the lord is on my side on this one.
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| jeff |
It is hard. When I did it for a week I was having to eat sticks of butter and spoonfulls of coconut oil when I did not even feel like eating anything at all. If you're thinking of doing this eating only animal flesh, I'd guess we're talking about 4-5 pounds of meat per day. The only way I could get my calories that high was by eating butter, coconut oil, and drinking heavy cream by the glassfull.
Actually, I am convinced already that one can consume as much animal fat as they want, in the absence of carbs, and not put on fat. In my one week experiment I over-ate calories enough so that I should have gained at least 2.5 pounds of fat. As we all remember, I actually lost a pound. |
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| Alex |
I was doing okay, but it is too soon for me to join in any Challenge, especially one where I will have to post all screw-ups...
You'll have to count me out. I'm doing the best I can, but as soon as I have to be perfect about it, I'll stray... too much pressure, I guess .
But the rest of you are doing a great job! 
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| Dean |
You're doin' fine.
Just define your parameters, and lead yourself there. You can do it. You know you can. Don't exclude yourself from this. You are doin' great, Alex!
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| jeff |
8 days down, and no slip-ups.
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| Alex |
Thanks for the encouragement, Dean . I think I can, I know I can .
Just meant to say I'm not very good at confessing . Just because I didn't tell you guys (and that is, after all, the purpose of this thread) doesn't mean I stayed on plan (completely), although I always come back (sometimes with the help of some IF). Just try to make sure to get in enough animal fat (D3 en fish-oil included) and drink plenty of water (warm/cold) to eliminate any cravings and most of the time it works .
Reading all this stuff about coping skills/crutches makes me realise I have to put myself and my health first, no matter what, to get where I want to be. And the time to do that is right here and right now! No need to convince any others of this WOE, besides you can't win them all .
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| Jaime |
I slice it up into thin-ish strips. Put a good sized hunk of butter in a pan with a little minced garlic and cook it up so it is just cooked but not overcooked. In another pan I cook up some sliced mushrooms in some butter (adding more butter as they suck it up) and when it is done I pour this over the liver. My fav dish. I think I will pick up all 3 when grocery shopping today.
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| Dean |
Jaime,
The recipes I have found call for all sorts of things. I am combining these ideas into one recipe and am gonna try it out. Then I'll tweak it after that. Then I'll post it in the Red Meat forum. So far I'm gonna use the following ingredients.
sliced cow liver bacon lard butter cream sour cream onions mushrooms Worcestershire sauce garlic powder paprika black pepper white pepper sea salt I just hope it all turns out OK. It is a combo and modifications of the recipes I've found, cuz there were so many that looked good, and, of course, I had to make it close to zero carb, animal food.
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| Jaime |
Dean
Those ingredients look like they would belong in beef bourginon (sp?)
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| Dean |
They look like they belong on the Bus!
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| Billi-Jean |
...and they look delicious!
Reminds me of the way we used to make liver: we'd use lamb's liver of course (that's what Greeks tend to eat). First you fry up some sliced bacon pieces and set them aside. Then add more lard to the pan and fry up cut up pieces of liver and set those aside. Then, to the fat and juices in the pan, add some onions and mushroom slices to caramelize and soften. Deglaze with some white wine (a dry wine) then add the liver and bacon back in. Add pepper or whatever seasoning you want then add some cream to form a delicious thick, creamy wine sauce! Oh man, it's so yummy -even as a kid I loved liver because of this way of making it!
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| Dean |
That is so interesting Billi-Jean,
I just found all these different liver recipes on the web, and combined all the best ideas and ingredients, and came up with this recipe. http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about818.html It's on my stove now. It would give a modern nutritionist an instant heart attack just to read this recipe!
That's funny that you guys made it the same way. And, I was even thinking about wine in the sauce, but wasn't sure about it. Hell, next time I'll save myself some research time and just ask you.
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| Billi-Jean |
I think your research is worth it -damn, this sounds good!!
Can't wait to hear the verdict on the result!
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| Billi-Jean |
excellent effort as always, jeff!! Way to go!!
Day 10 for me and things are going well! Just had a large steak (that barely had time to make friends with the pan before it was whipped out, plonked on the plate, and gobbled while still mooing)
I LOVE this WOE!!! Sugar cravings are gone, gone, gone!!
Cravings for starchy things still surface but I manage to control them by eating chunks of cheese.
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| Dean |
I updated the thread with the liver recipe. http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about818.html I also edited the recipe to cut the amount of butter in half.
But yah, this stuff is great. I just wish I cared for the taste of liver more. It turned out so tender, and if I gotta eat liver, this is definitely the way to do it.
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| Dean |
WTG, Billi-Jean!
Sounds like you have this licked.
It's Day 9 for me, with no slip ups at all. Have been doin' the IF thing with ease, since I never get hungry. I am eating fewer calories, but still getting plenty of animal fat. My ketones are startin' to kick in. All is well in carnivoreland.
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| Billi-Jean |
Alex, I too think you're doing fantastically!!
You're positive, determined and honest -now there's a winning combo!!
I read somewhere recently (I think Gary Taubes made it in one of his interviews), that one of the problems with making the transition to low-carb is that, because there are potential side-effects -it is a big adjustment for the body to switch from glucose burning to fat burning for energy, and the effects can vary for people, the fact then, that people don't have the support of their GP's (who should be the ones to help monitor and direct their individual responses/reactions and needs while making the transition), means that people are left to tackle it all on their own. I think the point he makes is so true. I've tried low-carb and zero-carb a number of times. Interestingly, on each attempt, it seems depending on the particular state of my health at the time, I had different responses to the transitional phase!! Very frustrating. I didn't know what was going on and each time I gave up. Luckily, I just couldn't ignore what I'd come to believe about carbs, so I would eventually try again, adjusting what I was doing and seeing how I reacted to it. I finally found what seemed to work for me, after what seemed like countless defeats. Seems to me that you have more determination than I and certainly more of a positive attitude than I!! I don't for a moment doubt that you can and will figure out what makes this WOE consistently sustainable for you!
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| Billi-Jean |
 Back at 'cha, Dean!! You is a STAR!!
I'm glad I'm a carnivore in carnivoreland!!
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| Dean |
Day 13. I'm still stickin' to plan.
And, from the lack of "confessions", it looks like everyone else is too!
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| Heather |
I will have to join you, starting now of course.
And nothing to confess. I would love a rum and diet coke right about now though....
These are my rules: No alcohol, no scale, no carbs for me. Talk about addictions.....
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| Dean |
Heather joins us!
This makes it an even dozen! Dean Dave Bobi Rich Jaime mae_west jeff Billi-Jean Red Ryan Alex Heather So, how are all of you doin'? Don't be afraid to post your fuck ups... or your accomplishments.
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| Billi-Jean |
Day 14...feeling groovy
No more furk-ups to report, so I'm still only on the 2 infringements of brazil nuts and that green drink thing I had...unbelievable!!
Heather, I didn't manage to get rid of my 'scales' addiction until long after I'd lost all the weight!! Even now, I have to be careful not to place too much weight (ha ha) on what they read or I quickly find myself 'needing' to weigh myself daily again!
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| Alex |
Not much to confess. Trying to stay within inductionparameters (ZC is too much at this moment, have to get past the transition fase first), except for normal coffee instead of decaf, not using AS (therefor mayo is out as well, haven't made any myself yet) and using more cream than allowed .
Too bad deli-meats don't taste as good as they used to (too much salt) but hey, just bring in the brats/butter!! Raw egg yolks are great for reducing cravings as well as almondbutter (on occasion) .
Because of (comments on) 'dragonbreath' I use some AS mints when necessary, but at least I know my body is transferring to burning fat. Saw an analogy on some migrane-board about how eating carbs is like using net-power (in need of constant fuel) and using fat for energy is like a battery, going on and on for hours without refuelling. Sounds like IF to me . I eat some fat between meals to prevent any diversion, but as days go by, there is less need for that .
As BJ points out: feeling groovy as well.
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| jeff |
Hey, another brat lover!!! Welcome to the party. What part of Europe are you in? No F*ck ups for me so far, either.
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| Dean |
Day 16. Still goin' strong.
Have decided to follow Heather and ditch the wine starting now, and start cleanin' things up in anticipation for the MAM (Metabolic Advantage Movement) experiment, which I may start on Dec 1 with jeff. We could give each other some support gettin' through that month. I now have tons of lard I just rendered, and still have plenty of tallow, so extra animal fat can be added to my diet with ease.
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| Billi-Jean |
Excelente everybody!!!
...or as the Brits say, "Jolly good show, what!" ...or as the Aussies say, "On yers mate!"  ...you guys are whipping it to this challenge! 
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