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AlexF

Questions about protein

From my reading so far, the consensus regarding daily protein intake seem to hover around 1gram per Kilogram of lean body weight.

I currently weigh 213Lbs.  This equals 96.6 Kilos.

Now, I'm not sure how much of that weight is fat, but lets say my lean mass is 85 Kilos.   If I were to eat according to consensus, that would mean I should eat 85 grams of Protein per day.

According to this site:  http://www.weightlossforall.com/protein-steak.htm  3.5 oz of beef contain, on average, 30 grams of protein.  Does this mean I should try to keep my daily meat intake to around 10 oz?  That's not much!  I've been consuming close to a pound (16 oz.) of beef every day for the last few weeks.  Is it acceptable to eat more meat as long as you balance it out with adequate fat intake?   I'm confused... Confused
Kristelle

Screw that rule...just eat as much as you want with lots of fat. Keep it simple!
jeff

Kristi31 wrote:
Screw that rule...just eat as much as you want with lots of fat. Keep it simple!

I agree.  I could see that amount as a bare minimum.  I lost weight just fine eating alot more probtein than that.  I think most here would say the same.
AlexF

Quote:
Screw that rule...just eat as much as you want with lots of fat. Keep it simple!


Hehe, nice and to the point....which leads me to my next question  


This has possibly been answered in another thread but can anyone enlighten me as to what happens to the excess protein one consumes?  Does it get converted to something?  Does it just go in the toilet?
Billi-Jean

Hey Alex, that's the million dollar question! LOL

There is much heated debate on this issue; some say that .58 of every gram of 'excess' protein consumed gets converted to glucose via GNG, others disagree that this is the case and still others believe that it depends on whether one is following a ZC or ketogenic diet...

I tend to believe that on a ZC diet, because blood glucose levels are kept stable since carbs aren't being consumed, the body will NOT expend energy to convert something into glucose that will then disrupt the homeostasis of blood, but instead will only produce small amounts of glucose as needed (possibly from protein as well as from glycerol and lactate), and only in the amount required, thus NOT as a function of the percentage of supposed 'excess' protein consumed.
jeff

On a VLC diet, I dont think excess protein gets converted to glucose.  If it did , I would think there would be a coresponding insulin response and subsequent fat storage if there were excess calories.

Let me direct you to this experiment I did last year.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/ftopic621-0-asc-0.php

Here is a recap:

Quote:
Well, the results are in. I didn't plan on reporting this at 7 AM, but I couldn't sit on this all day.

Weight 162

I lost 2 pounds!!!
I averaged 4138 calories per day.
That's an extra 1300 calories per day
An extra 9300 calories for the week
I "should" have gained a llittle over 2.5 pounds.

The average breakdown of macronutrients looks something like this.
65% fat
26% protein
8% alchohol
1% carb

It's interesting to note that I consumed alcohol every day, about 2 glasses of dry red wine on average.

Ok, does somebody with more technical knowledge than me want to take a stab at explaining all of this?


Looking back, I see that I was over 250g of protein all but one day, and over 300g on 2 days!!

I suspect that just like excess fat, excess protein gets burned up in futile cycles and other highly technical stuff that I can't possibly explain.
Heather L

From some of my reading, I would also add that if the body gets more protein than required then it shuttles it into extra "repairs".  It makes sense that the body would use what it has when it is abundant.
jeff

Heather L wrote:
From some of my reading, I would also add that if the body gets more protein than required then it shuttles it into extra "repairs".  It makes sense that the body would use what it has when it is abundant.

I would also not be surprised if muscle is added, even with little or no exercise.
Heather

I have never had a problem with too much protein.

I don't believe the formula posted, it seems way too low for reality. Some people swear by it, I don't see how it can work with realistic portion size and realistic hunger. Just sayin'.... Dunno
Billi-Jean

Heather wrote:
I have never had a problem with too much protein.

I don't believe the formula posted, it seems way too low for reality. Some people swear by it, I don't see how it can work with realistic portion size and realistic hunger. Just sayin'.... Dunno


Yeah Heather, Yup

I weigh 104lb...my LBM is 84lb (38kg), thus I supposedly only need 38g of protein per day!

There is no way I could eat only 38g of protein a day...what, live on 170g or so of meat ONLY per day??
That sounds absolutely nuts to me. I just couldn't stop after eating such a small piece of meat, regardless of how much fat I consumed alongside it!
AlexF

So, it seems to me that even if some glucose is manufactured from Protein (amino acids) during VLC eating, it all gets used up almost instantly so its effects on insulin production are minimal.  In other words, the body only produces the glucose it needs for that particular moment and no more.

What say you?


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein

Quote:
In animals, amino acids are obtained through the consumption of foods containing protein. Ingested proteins are broken down through digestion, which typically involves denaturation of the protein through exposure to acid and hydrolysis by enzymes called proteases. Some ingested amino acids are used for protein biosynthesis, while others are converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis, or fed into the citric acid cycle. This use of protein as a fuel is particularly important under starvation conditions as it allows the body's own proteins to be used to support life, particularly those found in muscle.  Amino acids are also an important dietary source of nitrogen.


And From:  http://www2.ufp.pt/~pedros/bq/gng.htm

Quote:
The human body has two main ways to keep constant blood glucose levels between meals: glycogen degradation and gluconeogenesis.  Gluconeogenesis is the synthesis of glucose from other organic compounds (pyruvate, succinate, lactate, oxaloacetate, etc. Most of the reactions involved are quite similar to the reverse of glycolysis. Indeed, almost all reactions in glycolyis are readily reversible under physiological conditions.

During intese physical exercise, lactate produced in the muscles is sent to the bloodstream, and can be used by the liver as a gluconeogenic substrate. Although 6 ATP are used by the liver for each new glucose synthesized and only 2 ATP per glucose are released in the muscle under anaerobic conditions, this "lactate cycle" is advantageous to the organism, since it allows the maintenance of the anaerobic exercise for a little longer (and this can be crucial for survival, e.g., by allowing a prey to outrun its predator, or a predator to keep chasing its prey)



Billi-Jean

Yeah, Alex, I don't think that excess protein (in the absence of carbs) can cause a spike in blood glucose because the purpose of GNG is to supply extra glucose when and only when needed.
AlexF

Bear seems to agree:

Quote:
You CANNOT raise your blood glucose level above your normal fasting level by gluconeogenesis, no matter what. Gluconeogenesis cannot and will not even take place so long as there is enough fat intake, period. 'Excess' dietary protein is broken down and discarded, never converted to glucose except in an emergency- such as under heavy and extensive fasting- and then only after all the stored glycogen in liver and muscle has been converted first. The liver under these circumstances only produces from protein the exact amount necessary to maintain the normal level. Only dietary intake can drive the blood glucose level above your baseline.
Heather L

I agree.  Protein is used as fuel, only if absolutely necessary.
Dean

I personally don't do well with too much protein. I'm not sure if it's cuz our ancestors ate their meat raw, and, therefore, could not eat a lot of it at once, and also prized the fat, so they ate a lot of that, which filled them and satiated them before they could eat much protein, or what the deal is, but, I just feel a lot better if I don't overdo protein and make sure to get really high animal fat. I still don't eat a lot of calories, typically, cuz of IF, but, I eat enough, which is easy to do on high animal fat.

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