| Archive for The Magic Bus Trip Never get off the Bus! |
| Sol |
Raw meat and underarm odorHi,I'm starting to up my raw meat intake to up my protein. This morning my underarms stink. When I was eating much less protein but lots of fat I smelled mighty nice! Last night I had a hefty sized slab of raw beef chuck steak. I continue to eat raw fat throughout the day. Someone please tell me that the smell goes away after a while as my body gets used to the larger doses of animal protein. Thanks, Sol |
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| Loops |
Hiya -
yeah when I eat lots of protein I stink. When I eat lots of fat and a bit of protein I hardly have any BO. One arm smells more than the other 
However, the best solution is to use one of those crystal thingies. Oh, and my breath smells on lots of protein/moderate fat, but high fat it smells NICE. I asked my husband. Why are you trying to eat lots of protein anyway? I would just go with what your body tells you - for most people that is more fat. Loops |
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| Sol |
Loops,
You raise a really good point when you ask why I'm eating so much protein. I'm wanting to up my protein to maintain and gain strength in the gym but my body isn't interested in consuming lots of protein. It likes the fat much more and I smell nice when I eat mostly fat. I'm interested to hear from others who eat lots of protein. If the body odor thing is ongoing then I may just keep protein relatively low, keep fat high and adjust my gym workouts to stay lean but not necessarily gain muscle. Thanks for your input. Sol |
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| Loops |
Oh Sol -
I have some really good news for you! I have gained quite a bit of muscle with a high fat low/moderate protein approach. I am not kidding, but something did that and it wasn't high protein! I only swim, do some tennis training and biking, and my biceps actually grew more with higher fat than high protein. I hate to admit it, but also I have a feeling all the dairy I was eating was actually HELPING my muscles grow (growth hormones?). Right now I'm off cheese and mostly off cream with just butter, so we'll see what happens, as I'm going to start doing some weight training again. Unfortunately cheese messes with my mood (too much calcium perhaps?) and a lot of dairy makes my face quite puffy. I only noticed this after several years of quite a dairy-heavy diet, even on VLC. See how you go but just to say I personally don't think you have to force the protein to get muscle gain. Everything I have read disagrees with this - oh you need insulin, lots of protein etc. - it wasn't true for me. Loops |
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| Dean |
Sol, I ditto what Loops said. I had the same thing happen, and much more in my right arm. Since upping my animal fat, I'm fine. I doubt you need a lot of protein to build muscle. Bodybuilders usually go low fat to get really ripped and cut. That isn't really natural anyway, and has been shown to be hard on their bodies. Things taken to a bit extreme, perhaps? | ||||
| ~mina~ |
also try using some parsley.. I use it at times on my eggs. I dont consider it rubbish  but rather a spice.. and ive read it helps in this area (as does rosemary).. its pretty tasty imo 
sage is also a good spice.. maybe try a sage tea. Ingredients 1 tablespoon fresh sage leaf or 1teaspoon dried sage 1 cup water 1 wedge lemon (optional) honey, to sweeten (optional) Directions Bring water to a boil. Remove from heat and put sage in the water. Let steep for about 3-5 minutes. Strain, pour in cup, add lemon and honey, if desired, and drink. You may drink this hot or cold. Enjoy! it is true that if you are overdoing protein, your body will tell you. youll also start smelling kind of like ammonia. get some more fats in there and this should go away. if youre eating too much dairy.. youll start to smell like milk and butter  . ive read that during the vietnam war the soldiers were put on a new diet when they got there because the vietnamese could smell them. I dont know if thats a made up story or true, but im sure just like me you have smelled a 'dairy' person before. they kind of smell like sour milk.
of course my nose is a bit sensitive and I can smell the littlest things. hth ,
mina |
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| Kristelle |
Definetly a symptom of too much protein...had it too plus many others like fatigue, constipation, etc. | ||||
| Nicola |
I don't understand, some eat just raw meat (not little protein!!!) and fat = not trouble! Lex mentioned dogs (100lb) on raw meat eat 2lb of food - not just fat!
Why should a healthy raw meat cause trouble if we eat fat with it? I am not making my self sick on fat; no carnivore animal eats lumps of fat and no or even little protein! Perhaps humans just look for trouble and don't let their body get on with things! Time heals - or as Bear said "don't be food obsessed".  and  Nicola
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| Van |
underarmSol, you might like to read Dr. Ron Rosedale's writings. He recommends no more meat than the size of your palm three times a day as opposed to a one time sitting of a 'large' portion. You'll have to read why yourself, but there's the insulin response from the excess protein than the body needs to repair or build. He even considers it dangerous. The idea of obsessivenes. Well, I think we all have to admit that as compared to the rest of the world, all of us are on a different path. Even Bear recommends eating up to six meals when weight training and even took and made his own protein powder to further boost his meat diet's effect at producing muscle for him. So he himself had to have put some thought and effort behind that regime. When you think about it, our hunter gatherer ancestors had to have worked out their diet continuosly throughout the year for the change in seasons brought different challenges and dietary needs every day they woke up. They hardly could stock their fridge with a months supply of New Yorks and fat trimmings etc. Even if they could, they most likely would have 'cravings' for nutrients found in different animals and or their parts. We're all evolving. |
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| Sol |
Wow! Lots of great and help responses. Thank you everyone!
Loops and Dean - I'm delighted that you two have had good experience with moderate protein. That's certainly what my body is telling me so I'll go with that. Mina - thanks for the parsley and sage recipes, and for the interesting story about our Vietnamese soldiers and their smell. Van - I Googled for Ron Rosedale and read some of his writing. His writing is interesting. I do notice, though, that he doesn't think saturated fats are good for you. This is being quite an interesting trip, let me tell you. I've never run my body on just fat and protein. I like it and I've got lots to learn about what my body wants. I notice that sometimes I crave cooked eggs or cooked meat, and sometimes I'm delighted with it raw. Coconut oil isn't something I would eat out of a spoon but creamy coconut milk, with virtually no carbs, I absolutely love. I do notice that I don't crave beef, but I like chicken (cooked) and lamb (raw) and buffalo (raw). It's quite fascinating to get all these signals from my body although I do notice that some things mess with the signals. For example, I love raw sausage from Whole Foods but I suspect its largely due to the spice in them. The guar gum in the coconut milk makes the milk creamy and that may be missing with natural signals because I could eat that non-stop. Cheese I could eat non-stop as well. Anyway, I'm rambling. Thank you everyone for the obvious advice - if lots of protein seems like too much then eat less of it! Sol |
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| jeff |
Once last year my wife told me I smelled like a piece of meat. I took it as a compliment. Now I wonder.......
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| lex_rooker |
Sol - I'm interested in the precentage or amount of protien you are eating compared to your fat intake. I'm currently eating about 145 grams protein and an equal amount of fat. This make protein about 32% of the calories I consume and fat at 68%.
This makes my protein content rather high yet I don't seem to have the body order problem so wondering how much you're actually eating. Lex |
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| Sol |
Lex,
I don't track my food consumption but the day I had body odor was the day after I ate about 3/4 pound of raw beef chuck steak. I think it was the raw beef more than the amount of protein but I'd have to do a real experiment to find out. Sol |
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| lex_rooker |
Sol-
Accourding to the USDA web site, Chuck Steaks with 1/4" of fat on the edge are about 8% fat and 20% protein. This would make about 45% of calories from fat and 55% of calories from protein. This is indeed a very large amount of protein. The ususal recommendation is that you do not exceed 40% of calories as protein on a regular basis. I prefer a Ribeye Steak which is the same cut as Prime Rib but without the bone. If trimmed to 1/4" fat on the edge it runs about 34% fat and 16% protein. This comes to about 81% of calories from fat and 19% of calories from protein - complete opposite of a Chuck Steak. Lex |
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| Nicola |
Lex, can you find a picture of a "Lex-Ribeye Steak"? Perhaps you could post a picture of your food now and what it would look like high fat?
What do you think of the Dr. Ron Roedale diet? Nicola |
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| Nicola |
I posted a message on the Rawpaleo yahoo group about protein/fat % and I also mentioned this Dr. Ron Rosedale (eat 3 times a day not more protein than the palm of hand).
Hi Niocola It is a ridiculous suggestion that everyone should eat only a certain sized piece of food. We all do different amounts of work, and are all different sizes. This nonsense is the product of the thinking of people who have too little brain power to process anything other than repeated dogma. A parrot could do their job. If you eat meat which is in the range of 3 - 6 parts lean to 1 part fat, and eat that until you are satisfied, that is the correct amount. And that will also give you roughly the right ratios of fat to protein. Barry Groves, PhD Author: Natural Health and Weight Loss Co-producer: Be Slim Without Dieting (Video / DVD) http://www.second-opinions.co.uk http://www.diabetes-diet.org.uk http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk |
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| Sol |
Hi Nicola, What does parts mean - volume or calories? A gram of fat has 9 calories but a gram of protein has only 4. Thanks, Sol |
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| Van |
raw meat and..I'm a little surprised that Barry would speak out so bluntly. I agree there's alot to eating to you're satisfied. What Rosedale is trying to convey, and I have spoken to him regarding this, is that protein should be eaten to restore and rebuild cells. Any excess will spike insulin levels. To eat one large meal of protein will not serve the protein needs, ie, rebuilding of cells, of the body many hours later. Better to eat more frequent smaller protein portions throughout the day accompanied of course with fat for energy. Ron comes at diet not from what our ancestours ate, because nature never intended us to live forever. So in effect, he is 'prescribing' a diet based on optimal longevity requirements. He really isn't all that interested in what we ate back then, but what we can eat now that creates the greatest balance, ie, hormonal, ie, insulin, leptin, for the body. He seems to have a lot of 'data' to back up his beliefes, and has a very developed blood panel or testing procedure to verify as to whether or not 'his' diet suggestions are working. |
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| Van |
raw meat...Oh, one other thing, at least for me, it is very easy to eat alot of meat when I flavor it with butter or shaved fat etc. Bear recommended to eat the fat first then follow up with the meat protion. That suggestion really does help with feeling the natural 'stop' that "instinctos' talk about. Just a thought. Of course to me it tastes so much better to eat it combined. |
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| Nicola |
Hi Nicola
Parts by volume. By the way, to shatter another myth, fat does not contain 9 kilocalories per gram. Taken as a whole, it's nearer 7.5 kcals/g. Saturated fats have fewer calories than unsaturated fats, which may be a reason why weight loss is easier eating animal fats and tropical oils, than it is when eating vegetable margarines and cooking oils. Barry Groves, PhD Author: Natural Health and Weight Loss Co-producer: Be Slim Without Dieting (Video / DVD) http://www.second-opinions.co.uk http://www.diabetes-diet.org.uk http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk Van, do you give your dog fat for him to chock on and then protein as big as the balm of his foot? You also mentioned eating raw lamb with coconut fat on top - so you should be eating the fat out of the container and then eat your protein? Our DNA has not changed so perhaps most scientific debate is a form of making money? Nicola |
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| Tracy |
From Eades' blog:
So if I'm understanding this correctly, glucose made via GNG first goes to the liver and muscles to replenish glycogen stores, and then whatever's left over goes to the bloodstream. So then would any insulin spike be determined by the amount of glycogen you needed? It doesn't seem that any excess glucose from GNG will cause a spike, just what wasn't used up (and then how much of a spike would happen? And is it really a cause for concern, esp. among those if us who aren't consuming carbs, or at least very low levels?) |
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| Van |
raw meat.....Nicola, hi, not sure what you're really asking. But feeding dogs raw has always been a big guess for me. Learned the hard way feeding them even raw organic chickens/skin lesions and now with lamb, sometimes there isn't hardly any fat at all on them and other times they are thick with fat, (the lamb carcasses). So the question has been, which is preferable to their health? Do I try and supplement fat? As mentioned I eat my fat and protein combined, but did try Bear's suggestion of eating it separately and did notice a taste preference change. You might like to try it once or twice. Eating the fat first, first it tastes good and then not to much later it changes telling you that you've had enough. I imagine big cats as they eat through their kill do the same thing. That is, wait for a taste change then move to another organ etc., especially if the animal is large enough. Our ancestors, my guess, would never have thought to limit their portions, for fear that they would't have another opportunity to eat for some time. Most of us are much more sedentary than our hunter gatherer ancestors. Yes we may exercise vigorously once a day, but often we sit at our computors etc. Thus the ability to control blood sugar and insulin spikes and sensitivity through exercise is minimal. I think that may contribute largely to Rosedale's suggestion to portion out protein. This might be something Lex might be interested in monitoring with his blood sugar experiments. May be Ron would have some tips as to how best to monitor it, test wise. And yes, there is the chance that making money can live behind alot of what many do, just as well as believing or wanting to believe that we are right can. |
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| Nicola |
Well I walk and run every morning (+ exercise and rebouning). For my meat I use my bicycle (today this was 40 km to Waldshut/Germany) and towards the evening I go swimming and ride about 20 km (every day and in every weather).
I work things out in my head and feel my system. I wonder some times what it must feel like if cream, butter, eggs, chease...would be circulating threw me? Any better? I eat raw meat/organs&fat till satisfied. I do not get hungry nor have I the desire to stop half way threw the day to post food in to my body! Time is what we need  .
Nicola |
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| Kim |
Nicola, do you just eat one meal a day then? Kim |
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| Sol |
An interesting clue re armpit smellYesterday I did some rock climbing. I didn't drink enough water and was a little bit dehydrated plus I soaked up some sun (I don't use sun block.)After the climbing a friend and I went to the Outback Steakhouse for dinner. I had about a pound of prime rib steak (after having eaten four or so ounces of beef jerkey during the day. (The beef jerkey only consisted of beef and salt - no nasty chemicals.) I was pretty thirsty during dinner and had, maybe, 3 big glasses of water with lemon. Well, this morning I didn't stink even though I ate lots of beef yesterday, and almost certainly didn't get enough fat. My guess is that drinking so much water at dinner made the big difference. The steak was seasoned, not with BBQ sauce, but with cayenne, salt, black pepper and maybe a few other spices. Plus, this morning, my Tanita scale records my bodyfat at 20.6%, which is a fair amount lower than it has before. I might really be at 17% by now. I'll know in about a month when I get tested at my gym. Thoughts? Sol |
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| Nicola |
Yep, that's the way it always goes - I just work better that way. Nicola |
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| ~mina~ |
Re: An interesting clue re armpit smell
sol, that sounds like a wonderful day ~ i love hiking and mountain biking and things like that. im not experienced in rock climbing but i think that might be fun ! and then to go to outback youve officially made me jealous
it sounds like you had a great time - i really hope you did! |
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| lex_rooker |
Re: An interesting clue re armpit smell
Only one pound of prime rib? I order at least two 16oz prime ribs or ribeye steaks and sometimes a batch of ribs too boot, but then I only eat once per day like Nicola. It costs me about $60 - $80 USD to eat out (depending on how much I eat) so I only do this a couple of times per month. Lex |
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| jeff |
Re: An interesting clue re armpit smell
Lex, you must get alot of looks like this from the waitresses. 
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| Sol |
Ok, I've got a new fantasy. (I can see the women's ears all perk up.  ) When I get nice and lean, I'll go back to Outback and order three prime ribs and rejoice in my body's ability to enjoy that much food and stay lean. I think I'll practice some intermittent fasting first.
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| jeff |
I rather enjoy the puzzled looks on people's faces when they look at my body, then look at my plate.
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| Billi-Jean |
Re: An interesting clue re armpit smell
Sol, I would hesitate to label beef (or any other) meat as being specific to BO, but rather would see it again as more of a refection the adaptation that one's body goes through for the first weeks to months of any dietary change. Acetone (a ketone) is volatile, so it is therefore a gas at room temp which is why it is leeched out of the body in our breath ect. So if your body changes to using fat for fuel (and thus produces ketones, and among them, acetone) in substantial amounts, it would make sense that it may leech out in perspiration and temporarily increase the pungency of BO. I would imagine it is the metabolic and hormonal adaptations that are going on, and perhaps protein:fat ratios, rather than that it is case-specific to a particular meat. |
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| Dean |
I must agree with BJ. When I first was doing ZC, back in February, my pits had a really strong smell, especially my right one. This was not even a normal BO smell, either. I'm sure it was the ketones leeching out, as BJ just described. This evening, I went to the park and got very sweaty, and I have no noticeable odor at all under my arms whatsoever. That must mean I'm keto-adapted.  Man, I'm really diggin' this carnivore WOL.
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| Sol |
It was tough climbing and, yes,. I had a good time! Thanks for your reply. |
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| ~mina~ |
i must make mention at this point..
ladies do not sweat, we glow. 
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| Tracy |
I think we're too paranoid about smells in general. Personally, I kinda like when my fella smells a little ;) Not reeks, mind, but has that nice, musky, worked-a-full-day scent. Mmmmmm.
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| ~mina~ |
me too
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| Van |
raw meat and ....Hi Nicola, would you be willing to post your recipe for "high Meat"? With all the recent posts regarding raw meat, I'm sure there would be interest in the 'next level'. Maybe you could also mention the benefits you expereince, and what it took to getting used to, if anything, and maybe how you incorporate it into your daily diet. I for one would be grateful for your imput. Thanks, Van |
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| Dean |
Van, I think Lex eats high meat daily. | ||||
| jeff |
Not sure if I could take that step.
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| lex_rooker |
Sorry to disappoint but no, I don't eat high meat daily. In fact, I don't ever make it on purpose. I often let my daily ration sit out it a warm car from early morning until I eat it late in the afternoon, and by then it has taken on a sour taste which I have come to enjoy, but I have never done the 3 week let it get really ripe thing. Lex |
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| Dean |
Oh, yah, I guess that is the real definition of "high meat". Sorry. You raw meat eaters need to educate us microphobiacs.
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| Sol |
I recently tried some high chicken that had been fermenting in a Mason jar for 3 weeks. I'm a pretty adventurous guy and I found the high chicken to be REALLY disgusting. I believe Aajonus' recipe is to take some raw meat, cut it up into bite size pieces, put them into a Mason jar, seal the jar, leave it in your cupboard, air it out every day (I highly recommend you air it out OUTSIDE), then eat some after a few weeks.
I much prefer Lex's idea so I'll give that a try - just letting meat sit inside a warm car for a number of hours. Lex - I assume you wouldn't leave meat wrapped in plastic sitting out in your car but that you'd open the package and expose it to the air, right? Sol |
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| Nicola |
Re: raw meat and ....
Hi Van, I sent you a privat mail last week- if you care to read then you will find all information needed. My high meat is never 3 weeks old; at the most I start eating it after 5 days. I like meat (now I will try mutton; I bought 3,8kg leg and will eat this every other day as I like to have the acid of beef as well) to be a little older... I don't like chicken - not fresh and not old; most chicken and chicken eggs are not paleo. Nicola Nicola |
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| Van |
raw meat....Thanks Nicola, yes did read those sites you sent me, thanks. I've always thought I would try high meat with someone who had some experience 'making' and eating it. Kind of like eating strong cheeses for the first time; you're not sure if it's really supposed to taste 'that' strong, or has someone forgotten to throw it away. But I suggested that you might offer your experience for others here as well as myself. For you do seem to be a living testament or inspiration. Kind of like the first time I fire walked, I wanted to go first, but decided to go second in line. I'm wondering if it had the result that possibly people who eat yogurt at least believe to be. That is introducing a new line of bacteria to the intestines. One has to wonder what really is happening down there when one shifts from bacteria that are carb hungry to protein and fat? I'm sure a lab could identify the change-over in bacteria. Another question for you would be, have you gone off your alkaline water for a few days and noticed a difference? I read through the website for the machine you have, and of course they write all about the importance of an alkaline producing diet. What's your take on the whole acid alkaline controversy? I know that this may be a lot to ask, but anything you can offer will be apprecialted. thanks Van |
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| ~mina~ |
youre the man! |
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| jeff |
I'll play with fire, but I won't walk on it.
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| Nicola |
Re: raw meat....
Hi Van, I would not eat joghurt; Lex and the rawpaleo yahoo group have opend my eyes - Lex has been very kind and explained things; his words are what I have taken to
I hope Lex does not mind but his words could inspire other too ?
From Lex: Why do I eat beef? I eat it because grass-fed beef is available and relatively inexpensive. Horse, Bison, Elk, Deer, or any other grass-fed animal would be fine with me. It's just that they cost about twice as much as beef where I live. Marrow is a great fat but I usually order suet because it is much less expensive. To get marrow I have to pay for the shipping of the bones and extract the marrow myself and then throw the bones away. Most of the expense is in the cost of shipping the bones which get discarded. Suet is all fat and all of it is edible so there is no waste. This makes it much more economical - not to mention a whole lot less work. I found that raw meat digests better with much less waste. The volume of fecal material is less than 1/3 what it was when eating fruits, grains, and vegetables. I have regular bowel movements but now they only happen about once every 3 days. The meat and fat digest so well that there is very waste and it takes a couple of days to get enough for a bowel movement. It took a while for everything to settle down and I had bouts of constipation as well as runny stools for several months. After 2 years, everything is now consistent. I don't make any effort to exercise like running or going to the Gym. I do walk to the market which is 3km away severl times a week. I walk rather than take the car whenever distance and time permit. Other than that I don't do any special exercise. Over the years I think that I've tried every diet in the books from Pritikin to vegan to raw vegan and all caused me to experience health problems. I read AV's book but thought it was a bit hokey. I read Ray Audette's book "Neanderthin" and that is what got me started down my current path. Neanderthin is a cooked paleo diet which I followed for a few months before I finaly transitioned to a raw paleo diet and finally an all meat diet. I'd say the whole transition has taken about 3 years. I got the idea for moving to just raw meat from Geoff's forum. He posted a link to Steffenson's articles about eating only meat. I also read a very comprehensive book on the Lewis and Clark expedtion that went across the United States in the early 1800's. There are many journal entries discussing how the explorer's would kill a deer or buffalo and the local indians would eat the organ meats raw and crack the bones to get at the marrow (which the explorers would throw away) while the explorer's were building a fire to cook the muscle meat. Their journal entries also made reference to eating only meat for weeks at a time yet remaining in perfect health. I do eat out several times a month and I order a steak cooked rare. I then put several pats of butter on it to get a bit more fat. Rather than follow any Guru I finally decided to think through what I was doing. It made sense that it would have been impossible for our ancestors to eat grains as they had no way to process them to make them edible (grind, boil, bake, etc). I've also gone out into the woods to try to find fruits, nuts, berries etc and the wild ones aren't anything like the big fat juicy things you find in the markets - they are small and mostly seeds. I had to come to the conclusion that there is no way that wild fruits could have made up a significant part of our ancestor's diets. Then I looked around at the various native plants and tried to eat them - yuck, almost impossible to chew. They are very course and stringy, again, nothing like the fleshy veggies you find in the market. Next came dairy and I just tried to imagine a cave man milking a mastidon. Eggs seem edible but they are only available on a seasonal basis and there wouldn't be dozens of them lying around - just a nest here and there when you were lucky enough to run across one. This leads me to the conclusion that most of our food had to come from meat and fat which is the only food that would have enough calories and was available everywhere on earth. By meat I mean any kind of meat: fish, lizzards, snakes, deer, elk, buffalo, horse, cow, snails, crabs, frogs, mice, rats, squirels, clams - you name it - as long as it was eating its natural diet its good food for us. Early ancestors would not have had fire on a consistent basis and no other animal on earth cooks its food so it is reasonalble to assume that our ancestor's would have eaten their food raw also. Hi Nicola, I read the post on the forum that you attached below but didn't realize you were actually asking me a question. I also read through the material on the link you provided in this e-mail. Here's my take on the subject. There has been over 100 years of big business, our government, and the medical profession telling people that grains, fruits, and vegetables, as well as processed oils and high fiber foods should be the foundation for a healthy diet. The average person now believes this without question. Ask the average person on the streets and they'll tell you that eggs are bad, fat from meat is bad, butter is bad, but canola, cottonseed, and corn oil are good because they are low in cholesterol. They'll tell you that sugary muffins are good for breakfast because they are made from wheat (the foundation of the government food pyramid) and contain no Trans-fats and are labeled high in fiber which advertisers have told us is critical to our health. There are huge lobby's that spend millions of dollars to push vegetarianism and convince the general public that we should never kill animals for food. They often point to the Bible where it says that God told man to name all the animal (like pets) and that he gave man all the plants to eat. How do you overcome all this propaganda that you've been taught since you were a small child? It is very difficult. Anyone who deviates to far from what is considered "normal" is labeled a quack. Any medical doctor that openly told his patients to eat only grass-fed meats would have his medical license revoked and probably thrown in jail. This happens all the time here in the USA. You just can't get to far from the mainstream propaganda or you'll be in serious trouble. So what do you do? The best you can do is recommend less radical changes that sort of keep the current wisdom intact but just rearranges it a bit. You suggest that people should eat more meat and cook it a little rarer. The dairy lobby is huge and if you try to fight them you will come under attack so you recommend the least damaging dairy possible like butter and fermented products like kifer and yogurt. You see if you try to take away all the propaganda at once, people will reject it and you could get in serious trouble with the government - so you only recommend incremental changes. It's also very safe to continue to recommend eating at least something from all the identified "food groups". That way if someone gets sick or becomes deficient in some nutrient, you can always point to the fact that you "recommended that people eat from all the food groups" and if they didn't then that is not your problem. If you didn't do this then you could be open to lawsuits that could destroy you - especially if you have some sort of medical or nutritional license to protect. I think that if you actually think it through you will find that the idea that paleo humans ate large amounts of vegetables and fruits before we started cultivating them in the neolithic period just doesn't hold up under the light of truth. I'm sure that they ate some, but it certainly wasn't the foundation of their diet. Go out to any "wild" area where you live and try to find enough vegetables and fruits to sustain you as your primary food. You'll find it impossible. Try to find big fat sweet wild fruits or thick fleshy vegetables like you find in the markets. They just don't exist in the wild. What you'll find are small berries and small sour fruits that are only available for a few weeks a year, and most will be eaten by birds before you ever find them. The vegetables you'll find will be stringy and tough to chew plants that taste bitter. Try to find "wild" grain - it doesn't exist. The seeds of wild oats and other grain plants are small and almost impossible to separate from the chaff or husk - totally inedible. Study the findings of Paleo Anthropologists. They've found lots of animal remains at paleo digs, but never any plant material like fruit pits or seeds. If paleo man ate 60% of his food as fruits, nuts, and plants, then why don't we find any remains at all of the hard shells from the fruit pits or other plant materials. After all, they do find the remains of the wood from fires so it is clear that plant materials do survive in the protected caves and other areas where paleo man found shelter. Technology has also progressed enough that they can now take the bone fragments they find and do a chemical analysis to determine whether the source of nutrients that created the bones was from animal or plant sources. They can even tell if the animal ate fish or land based animals as their primary food. All tests on bones from humans from the paleo period have shown that over 90% of their food was from large land based animals and almost none from plants or sea creatures. This is pretty conclusive. I think what you are struggling with is the fact that diet recommendations are driven by huge cultural biases and indoctrination from the time we are small children that are difficult to overcome. But if you look at the studies of what our ancestors ate, and research where and when our modern sweet fruits, mild tasting vegetables, and harvest-able grains came from, you'll realize that none of these things could have been part of paleo man's diet. Eggs would have been available only in the spring and then most of them would have been partly developed into small birds by the time they were found and eaten. As for dairy, can you imagine a caveman milking a mastodon? What would he have used for a bucket to hold the milk? The only tools found at paleo digs have been sharp rocks and sticks. Individual families use far more fuel keeping their homes warm in the winter than they do cooking. Any reason why our ancestors wouldn't have found fire useful in keeping warm also? I expect that fire was used to provide warmth long before the idea of cooking food was ever thought of. I find it interesting that since most of our modern foods are not edible unless they are cooked, that we assume that it was the same during caveman times. Also, convincing people that their food must be cooked is the basis for much of our modern economy. There's a restaruant or fast-food place on every corner and almost all the food products in the supermarkets are cooked and processed in some way. Think how many people would become unemployed if everyone ate their food raw. The whole world would go into a huge recession as many of the bigest corporations in the world went bankrupt. Hi Nicola There are several issues related to Type II (adult onset) diabetes. As I understand it, our bodies become resistant to insulin over time just as it does with many other drugs such that it takes more and more insulin to keep blood sugar levels within a safe range. There have been many studies that show that Type II diabetics in the early stages also have very high blood insulin levels. It's just that the insulin is not doing its job because we have become resistant to it. As the disease progresses, the cells that produce insulin are overworked and finally give up and die. At that point there is little chance for reversal. The body needs small amounts of insulin to fine-tune blood sugar and regulate body functions. This is why Type I diabetics (those born without the ability to produce insulin at all) must take insulin shots even if they are on a low or no-carb diet. Type II diabetics on the other hand, can manage quite nicely on a no-carb or very low carb diet as they have not completely lost the ability to produce insulin. They can produce enough to effectively manage body functions as long as they can reduce the "resistance" problem, which seems to happen naturally when we stop overloading our system with carbs. It is probably true that the many years I've spent foolishly eating junk (I was a strict vegetarian for almost 20 years until my health got so bad I had to change) has reduce my capacity to produce enough insulin to effectively manage blood sugar levels if I were to return to eating a lot of carbs. However, as long as I keep carbs to a minimum, my ability to produce insulin is more than adequate to meet my body's needs and effectively regulate body functions. Since this is all that is required, I'm happy with the results. Paleo man most likely would not have had the problem of over taxing his pancreas and becoming insulin resistant as he would have eaten only small amounts of low carb foods like berries and possibly a few greens, (my guess is maybe 10% or less of annual diet), for only the few weeks a year that they were in season. We experience the problem because we have based our whole diet around carbs and there are many special interest groups pushing vegetarian life styles which is completely at odds with our evolutionary history. As far as PUFAS go, I think there are two kinds - animal (Omega 3), and vegetable (corn, Cotton seed, canola, etc). I'm of the mind that all animal fats are good for us and that we require both saturated and unsaturated animal fats for our bodies to function properly. I firmly believe that fats from vegetable sources are harmful and I no longer eat them at all. How we could convince ourselves that our bodies are equipped to handle large amounts of things like corn oil is beyond me. You'd have to eat a bushel of corn to get the equivalent of a couple of tablespoons of oil, yet we practically drink the stuff by the litre - it (or some other vegetable oil) is in almost every modern prepared food. I don't think vegetable based PUFAS are directly responsible for diabetes, but I expect that they contribute to it as well as all the other modern degenerative diseases that our modern society faces. Hi Nicola, Not sure what to think. Most of it doesn't make sense within the context of our evolutionary history or the physics of RO. When he states that "inorganic minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium etc. are no different than toxic heavy metals like mercury or thallium" I have to wonder where on earth anyone could get water that doesn't contain these elements without using some type of technology like distillation. All water, with the exception of rain water, is full of dissolved minerals. How would our ancestors have distilled the water? How would they have captured rain water in any quantity to store for future consumption, or kept it "pure", remembering that minerals will leech into the water from any container made from a natural substance like wood or stone. The RO membrane is a high-tech polymer or plastic. Where on earth would a heavy metal like thulium come from when the process of reverse osmosis justs pushes the water through the plastic membrane that has holes just large enough to let the water molecules through but not the larger molecules of dissolved minerals. The whole point of RO is to EXCLUDE elements like thulium from the water. It is possible that the dissolved ionic form of some elements might be small enough to get through the plastic membrane, but only what was initially in the water could be there. No "new" elements would be added by the RO process, nor would they be concentrated. In fact the opposite would be true - they would be diluted. When I say that no new elements would be added, I must qualify this by saying that EVERYTHING can be dissolved to some extent in water. Water is called the "univeral solvent". This means that a few molecules of the plastic RO membrane will dissolve into the water, but so will the plastic from the container of the bottled water you purchase from the store, or the plastic drinking cup, straw, bottle, bowl, or anything else you put or store water in. It is a very, very, very, small amount, mayby 1 molecule of plastic to 10 or 100 million molecules of water, but it is there. All the food we eat conatins inorganic minerals like calcium, magnesium, potassium and many others, as do our bodies. Without them we'd have no bones. Our ancestors would have drunk river, lake, or well water and these are all rich in dissolved minerals. It is true that many of our waterways today are polluted with industrial waste that contains harmful concentrations of elements like cadmium, mercury, etc. but our natural water sources would have been rich in natural dissolved minerals from the dirt and rocks that it flows over and/or through. Does this make sense? Lex Van, I eat high meat because I like it and paleo will have not always been fresh any way. Look at the Eskimos leaving meat to decay for up to a year. That would no doubt contain lots of oxidized cholesterol, lipid peroxides, etc. But it might be what they had to do to survive on such a high-PUFA diet. Edward Howell, in one of his books, said that the Eskimo sled dogs would become haggard and gaunt if they were fed fresh raw meat. This didn't happen when they were fed aged meat. Search the archives for "Edward Howell" and "sled dogs" for details. My alkaline ionized water is what I drink because I would not drink bottled water or tap water; it is much better and gives me a lot of energy. No way would I stop!!! Does your dog worry about his alkaline/acid balance? Give him raw meat&fat and natural water. Why should you on a raw paleo diet ?
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| jeff |
Thanks Nicola. Great stuff! | ||||
| Van |
raw meat....Yes, thanks Nicola, so helpful. It is interesting what Ray Peat writes about the aging of the Inuit due to the poly fish oils. Read again where Bear also is against avos for the same reason. I'll have to ask Lex this, but in reading about the hunter gathers of Australia, they are noted to have found many non-meat items to gain caloric gain from. I think I read about it in Weston-Price lit. Also if one had evolved near the equator, as in Africa, there is the jungle and it's fruits. But then every indiginous society ever looked at ( especially near the equator) never has been found to eat that many fruits. Mostly still hunts for primarly food source.I wasn't suggesting that you stop drinking the alkaline water, I was more wondering if you had for some reason not been able to drink it for a couple of days, had you noticed a difference? May have to wait for that test. Thanks, Van |
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