| Archive for The Magic Bus Trip Never get off the Bus! |
| Peter |
The Incredible Shrinking ManInteresting changes, so far. Started carnivory Friday at 287lb, this morning weighed 279lb. Yeah, it's mostly water, but even so, I'd swear the stairs were easier this morning. Stomach is much less bloated. Feel a bit weak at the end of day. Get sleepy much earlier at night/sleep better/not as difficult waking up in morning. Chronic winter headache mostly gone. Probably other things I haven't noticed yet.Asked for suet and trimmings at Sam's Club Saturday. Offered to pay for it even. Sam's trashes it - no exceptions. Food tyrants.  Gotta find a butcher...
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| jeff |
That's great, Peter. Isn't it amazing how much better you feel after only a few days? Within a few weeks you should be feeling stronger and more energetic, as long as you stick with it consistantly. | ||||||
| Heather |
I lost 65 lbs. of "water" last year, I feel great now! 
Which reminds me, I should fix the links in my picture gallery. |
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| jeff |
Yes you should. 
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| Peter |
 "Water" - that's great. I have no illusions of losing nearly 10lbs of fat in 3 days. Still, my clothes are becoming loose, so something is disappearing.
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| Dean |
Re: The Incredible Shrinking Man
Peter, You should just go to regular grocery stores that have meat counters. I have one that will just give me all the fat trimmings I want for free. I render this beef fat into tallow. They fill a 50 gallon barrel every week to throw away. So, they will set some aside for me if I ask, and then I can just go in and pick it up the next day. |
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| Dave |
Awesome! | ||||||
| Heather |
Losing anything is great! 
How are you doing now? |
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| Peter |
I'll weigh tomorrow morning on an empty stomach - it's one week, you know. I'll edit this post when I have it. EDIT - I weighed in this morning at 275lb. I feel great, so I'll be continuing with this Bear-like diet. Weigh-in next week will be interesting... I've had low-grade, grinding headaches, off and on, for about 15 years. They come on in the fall and go away in late spring. I've taken any number of "medications" for it - over-the-counter stuff like aspirin, acetameniphin, ibuprofen, and naproxen, and some heavy duty stuff like tylenol w/codeine and Vicodin - to no effect. In one week on this diet, my winter headache is gone, totally. I can't remember being rid of it so early in the year.  Wouldn't it be ironic, if the cause of headaches is shown to be a byproduct of glucose metabolism, or insulin, itself? hmmmm....
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| Red |
Hey Peter, The cause of your headaches was probably from vegetables. Most vegetables and fruit contain a natural chemical called 'salicylates' (basically a weak form of natural aspirin) that need to be flushed out by your body. Salicylates are vasoactive, meaning they cause contricting/dilating of blood vessels, which in turn, causes headaches. They also cause skin problems, like rashes and hives, as well as mood disturbances. People who are sensitive to salicylates tend to have an easier time detoxing them in the spring and summer (might be a vitamin D issue, or maybe sweating helps flush them from the body? Not sure why yet). I know I get far worse reactions in the winter, too. Congratulations on doing so great!!!
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| Peter |
Thanks, Red. Is it a matter of the stuff being ever-present and ever-active that causes the headache? |
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| Red |
Yeah, I'd say so. Vegetables are riddled with bad chemicals. | ||||||
| Peter |
Weighed in this morning at 271lbs - down 4lbs from last week, instead of 12lbs the first week. Looks like it's settling into a more regular rate of weight loss.
Seeing some muscle definition again on my legs. Rode a bicycle semicompetitively in high school too many years ago, about 30miles a day. The muscles are still there... Found a butcher in town who is more than happy to give away his trimmings. 
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| jeff |
Peter, that 12 pounds you lost the first week was no doubt mostly water. It's still a nice feeling though, isn't it? That is now water that your body doesn't need to cary around. A guy your size can probably expect to lost at least 2-3 pounds per week until you get within about 20 pounds or so of your natural weight. Then things will probably start to slow down. You will most likely encounter some stalls along the way. It's not a big deal and should be expected. If you do stall, it might be a good idea to take a good look at what you are doing, just to make sure you haven't gotten off track. But, if you stall and you are still doing everything right, just be patient. I think that every once in a while the body needs an adjustment period. Good luck, and keep up the great work! |
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| Peter |
When the water softener needs refilling, I can lift a 50lb bag of rocksalt to chest level, one-handed, no sweat - don't even think about it. 16lb seems like nothing, but it is so much easier getting around without it. For example, I still get winded when working hard, but no longer stand around wheezing for minutes after it's over. Never been skinny before - I cannot even begin to imagine what it's going to be like 85lbs down the road. 
Monday, I'm going to start swinging kettlebells. The results people have had with high rep sets of ballistic excersizes with short rests in between show these exercizes are good for HGH production. Plus, they're a good way into HIIT for us who won't run.
Appreciate the comments, especially about reviewing for faithfulness to the program. Thanks. |
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| Dean |
Peter,
Congrats on your first days into this! 
Keep up the great work! If you ever stumble, just get right back up. It will really be worth it in the long run if you do.
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| Heather |
You will feel amazing 85 lbs. down the road, I can guarantee it!
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| Peter |
This Friday will be one month as a carnivore. I've managed to avoid carbs much better than expected - I've forgotten to ask Carl's Jr to hold the ketchup a couple of times, so there was a taste, and the hot BBQ sauce at Buster's is sweet, but it rips lips right off, so there wasn't much of that, either. Best of all, the MtDew addiction is no more.
I've really had only one unpleasant change - muscles. In the bad old days at the gym, as I'd work a muscle to failure, it'd burn good for the last several reps, then fail. It doesn't seem to matter how much I'm lifting now, if it's sustained beyond 5-10seconds, I get that same burn. It seems to fade away if the muscle is stressed for more than, say, a minute, and there is no weakness associated with it. But there's a band of muscles below and between the shoulder blades that has been aching for a few days - seems the only relief is in lying down. I've seen my reflection in windows and would guess my posture is changing. Does this ring any bells? Is it something we "grow out of"? |
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| Dean |
Congrats on your one month! 
The burn you describe is from lactic acid (as a result of anaerobic glycolysis), right? Your muscle glycogen stores are much lower eating this way, so perhaps that has something to do with it.  jeff, since you pump iron, have you experienced this?
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| jeff |
Not really. up until recently, it had been a long time since I had done any lifting, so I really don't have much of a point of reference. I really don't get a whole lot of "the burn". I have read several studies saying that low carb dieters have a much higher lactic acid threshold. That probably didnt help much, but that's my experience. | ||||||
| Peter |
Okay. I'm just gonna assume this is part of the adaptation process and be patient.
Jeff, I've read somewhere that lactic acid is a byproduct of glycolosis and does not appear at all in lypolosis. In fact, if memory serves, the author claimed that fatty acids are actually complex hydrocarbons, and the only oxidation byproducts are CO2 and water. Hence no burn... |
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| jeff |
Well that would explain it then, wouldn't it?
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| Dean |
Lactic acid is a byproduct of anaerobic glycolysis. When you use your muscles intensely and rapidly, the cells won't be able to get enough oxygen from the blood quick enough, so anaerobic (without oxygen) glycolysis must be used to supply ATP. This takes place in the sarcolemma (not in the mitochondria), so this is a different way to produce ATP. The chemical reactions are different. One of the end products of these chemical reactions is lactic acid.
In the mitochondria (and in the presence of oxygen), there is the transfer of electrons taking place (in the mitochondrial membrane) - the electron transport system. The end product is water, because the oxygen is the final acceptor of these electrons (O2 to H2O). This is a completely different method for producing ATP. Much more is produced, and the substrates needed for this production can come from fatty acid or glucose. If glucose is used, glycolysis must take place first. If fatty acid is used, then glycolysis is avoided. There is a difference between glycolysis (with takes place outside the mitochondria, in the cytosol) and oxidative phosphorylation (ATP production using oxygen, and using the electron transport system), which takes place using the mitochondrial membrane. |
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| Peter |
Well, this explains the energy boost people feel once they've keto-adapted. Is there any indication that those who maintain only the most necessary blood glucose levels ever enter into glycolysis? Weighed in this morning at 262lbs. I'm finding that shirts that fit or were a touch large a month ago, are so huge now, I can take hold of the buttons at the top and bottom of shirt and pull them away from my body a good foot or more. Shirts that were too small either fit now or are too big. Pants the same. It's unreal. |
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| Dean |
Congrats, Peter!
You truly are "The Incredible Shrinking Man"!
There are some cells (the minority of them) that don't have mitochondria, so must use glycolysis. And, for quick muscular energy, muscle glycogen stores will be called on, so those muscle cells would have to use glycolysis, at least right at first (to get going), cuz oxygen can't get there in time, and you must have oxygen to be the final electron acceptor in the electron transport chain (and become water). But, I doubt the cells that have mitochondria (muscle cells have a ton) would need to use any glucose, with an ample supply of fatty acid... and oxygen (after the blood delivered it). The more keto and FFA adapted one gets, the more the enzymes that are needed for using fat for fuel are coded for. And, with low or no dietary glucose from carbs, and therefore insulin levels being low, I don't know where the glucose would come from. I mean, the liver makes what the body needs, and I doubt it would make any more than that, cuz it is obviously triggered to make it... so what would trigger the liver to make more glucose than is needed? Nothing. I know insulin will put glucose into fat storage (after the liver changes it to fatty acid). Bear said that all dietary glucose gets put into fat storage, and our cells use only fat for fuel (the ones that can). He said the glycogen stores are only to assure blood glucose levels for the cells that have no mitochondria. But, I don't agree. There is no way oxidative phosphorylation can take place without oxygen. That is how ATP is produced inside the mitochondria (using the inner membrane). So, for immediate response by the muscles (like to pull your hand away from a hot stove), there must be some glycolysis taking place (outside the mitochondria), using glucose from muscle glycogen. When the muscle cells need ATP, the enzymes needed to break down the muscle glycogen for glucose act immediately in the absence of oxygen. That is a physiological fact. I think Bear was a bit rusty on his physiology. 
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| Billi-Jean |
There is one other thing with regards to muscle metabolism that we must consider however (as if we don't have enough 'complications' already!  ).
Muscle fibers (ie. muscle cells) actually have 3 ways to produce ATP: (1) from creatine phosphate -the use of creatine phosphate for ATP production is unique to muscle fibers (2) by anaerobic cellular respiration -a series of ATP producing reactions that do not require oxygen and occur in the cytosol, and (3) by aerobic cellular respiration -oxygen requiring reactions that produce ATP in mitochondria. Skeletal muscle cells, unlike most cells of the body often switch between a low level of activity, when they are relaxed and only using a small amount of ATP, and a high level of activity, when they are contacting and using ATP at a rapid pace. Since the amount of ATP normally present inside muscle fibers is only enough to power muscle contraction for a few seconds, then if strenuous exercise continues past this time the muscle fibres must make more ATP. In their relaxed state, muscle fibers actually produce more ATP than they need for resting metabolism. The excess ATP is used to synthesize creatine phosphate, an energy-rich molecule that is found only in muscle fibers. An enzyme called creatine kinase (CK) catalyzes its synthesis...now without going into too much detail , basically, creatine phosphate is 3-6 times more plentiful than ATP in the sarcoplasm of a relaxed muscle fiber.
So the first process that occurs when contraction begins and the ADP level starts to rise (due to the ATP currently present in the cell being used and thus converted into ADP from ATP), the CK enzyme catalyzes the transfer of a phosphate group from creatine phosphate back to ADP. This reaction quickly regenerates new ATP molecules. Now the point of all this is that together, creatine phosphate and ATP provide enough energy for the muscles to contract maximally for about 15 seconds. This amount of energy will sustain short bursts of activity, say, enough for example to run a 100-meter dash. So I guess what I'm getting at is that this can be done without the need for glycolysis! It's only after muscle activity continues and the supply of creatine phosphate within the muscle fiber is depleted that glucose is then catabolized to generate ATP. Glucose is obtained from the blood (as it passes easily into contracting muscle fibers from the blood) and is also produced by the breakdown of glycogen within muscle fibers. Now the related process of anaerobic respiration that uses this glucose can provide enough energy for only about 30-40 seconds of maximal muscle activity. So together, conversion of creatine phosphate and glycolysis can provide enough ATP to run, say, a 400-meter race. Muscle activity therefore that lasts longer than half a minute or so, starts to depend increasingly on aerobic cellular respiration, where pyruvate,(the product of glycolysis), if sufficient oxygen is present, enters the mitochondria and is completely oxidized, and, as we know, produces much more ATP. Fatty acids from adipose cells and amino acids from protein breakdown are also used within mitochondria for aerobic respiration. So aerobic respiration is what supplies enough ATP for prolonged activity, provided that sufficient oxygen and nutrients are available. These nutrients, as mentioned, include pyruvate obtained from glycolysis of glucose, fatty acids from the breakdown of triglycerides in adipose cells and amino acids from the breakdown of proteins. In activities that last more than 10 minutes the aerobic system provides more than 90% of the needed ATP. At the end of an endurance event such as a marathon, nearly 100% of the ATP is being produced by aerobic cellular respiration. What all this seems to imply to me, at least, is that after as little as 30 seconds of muscle activity we begin to rely more and more on aerobic respiration to continue or sustain muscle activity. Sure, some anaerobic respiration is going on, which of course involves glucose/glycogen. But since prolonged exercise really does require the aerobic, oxygen-dependant reactions for ATP production, then the less glucose that is available (say, as in the case of a zero-carb diet), then the more the muscles will rely on fatty acids and amino acids in order to sustain activity for prolonged exercise. Perhaps this is what Bear was trying to imply?? 
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| Dean |
Yah... I know I left some things out (on purpose) to try to simplify things. One thing that is very relevant to keto/FFA adaptation is the enzymatic switch that takes place. Enzymes that are needed for free fatty acid metabolism are going to be coded for more and more as one adapts to using fat for fuel over glycogen stores. Once glycogen stores are lowered, then that glucose source is needed more for maintaining the blood glucose levels for the cells that must have glucose. So, the body will prefer to use free fatty acid for the substrates required for the oxidative phosphorylation that takes place in the mitochondria. That is what Bear mentioned. He just said that glucose is never used by the muscle cells... which it is sometimes. As you mentioned earlier, the body tries to burn up the glucose cuz it sees it as toxic and wants to get rid of it. If one is not taking in glucose, then there won't be any excess, and therefore the body will go back to it's normal course of coding for the enzymes for fat metabolism, and use more and more fat for fuel, wherever and whenever it can... which is it's preferred fuel source. | ||||||
| jeff |
It's kind of funny how the low fat, high carb crowd likes to say that glucose is the body's preferred fuel, because it will use it if present. Following that line of reasoning, the body's actual preferred fuel would be alcohol. I'ts my understanding that the body will use alcohol first, if it is present. Now that's a diet I could enjoy!!  
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| Dave |
Yeah but the consequences of regular alcohol ingestion - are disasterous!
Alcoholism is not good! 
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| jeff |
Well of course over-consuming alcohol is not good. I was just making fun of the "preferred fuel" theory. I do believe the body gets rid of things it doesnt want in the order of toxicity. 1. Fiber Our bodies don't even digest this stuff. Our bodies have no use for it. All it does is pass through, scratching our intestinal linings along the way. Not toxic, I suppose, but of no real use. 2 Alcohol Of course we all know alcohol is toxic. The body gets rid of it pretty quickly. I do think research has shown that small to moderate amounts of some alcohol containing products do have some benefits. (or maybe I'm biased because I love my wine)
3. Protein I'm thinking protein would be next. I believe excess protein is thought to be toxic. And protein by itself will make you sick. (the rabbit sickness Steffanson talked about) 4. Fat This is the last thing the body will get rid of. In the presence of too many carbs, it will be stored by the body. (although this one may be open to debate). With a lack of carbs, the body just holds onto it until it is used for energy, or it uses itself up via a futile cycle. |
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| Dave |
Good List!
Yeah I knew what you meant, I was just trying to be silly.
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| jeff |
Ok good. You sounded a bit serious.
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| jeff |
Damn, I forgot carbs!!!!  Carbs should be #3. Move everything after that down one spot. Silly me. 
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| Billi-Jean |
Yup, simplifying is good...I can learn from that!! 
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| Billi-Jean |
jeff, love the list!!
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| Dean |
Good list, jeff!
Yah... I think drinking wine (or coffee for that matter) is the same thing as eating bbq sauce on beef ribs. Those things are gonna put toxins in your body. I don't think there are any real health benefits outside of just enjoyment of those things (the mental health). Best to remove as many toxins as you can. At least most of us have realized that plants are a big contributor to toxins, and damaging agents like the fiber you mention. BTW... who's journal are we hijacking now?
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| Billi-Jean |
...er, yes... *oops!* Sorry, Peter!
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| jeff |
I suppose I agree with you about wine, coffee, BBQ sauce, etc. But my thinking is, if we put a small amount of something perhaps a tiny bit toxic iinto our bodies, but get a large amount of enjoyment from it, that is a net benefit. In other words, if I can get a lot of enjoyment for a relatively low cost, it's worth it. On the other hand, would I enjoy eating apple pie every day? You bet!! But would it be worth the cost? No fucking way!! |
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| Dean |
Yah... I agree 100%. That's why it's important to pick your poison very carefully... and try to decide whether it's really worth it or not. If you can do without it, then do without it. If you just cannot, cuz it adds such a large enjoyment at a very minimal cost, then you SHOULD do it. Cuz, that, more than likely, is gonna keep you off all the other vices! I just hope Peter can appreciate all this!
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| jeff |
Yeah, sorry Peter. Oh well.....a good hijacking is kinda fun once in a while.
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| Peter |
Hijackers will be given a MtDew drip!!!
Honestly, I'm scared stiff that if given the chance, a small indulgence would give way to a big mistake. So, I've been trying a number of new sauces/dressings/dips that are kosher, carnivorally speaking. Current favorite: 3 teaspoons thick blue cheese dressing 2 teaspoons Frank's Redhot Buffalo Wing Sauce It's creamy, with a vinegar bite and spicy pop that fades quickly, with blue cheese in the background. More hotter, more better? - use Frank's Redhot XTRA Hot. Last night, I hit the kettlebells for the first time in a long while. Bought a jumprope last week - warmed up with that for five minutes, 5 and 10 hops at a time. Yeah, that needs work... Then did two hand swings HIIT style - 20 swings in 20 seconds, rest 10 seconds, 20 swings in 20 seconds, hack up lungs, put lungs back in, repeat for a second set. Cooled down 5 minutes on the jumprope.
If I did this on my old WOE, after this long a layoff, I'd be stiff, sore, weak, and creaky for a couple, three days. This morning, there were no physical reminders of it, at all. Went so well, it may happen again this evening. Totally unreal. Bear said that we should trust our bodies to indicate how much and when to eat, especially with fat. I've seen that - ate about 4oz of fat one dinner and between one bite and the next, it was very clear that I didn't need any more of it. But today was the first time there was any signal that I needed more food. Had just finished the 8oz top round steak knew right then I needed more food. So, cooked up and ate the other half. Surprisingly to me, it was just the right amount. Must have been the kettlebells? |
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| Dean |
You sound like you are doing great, Peter!
WTG! Yah... I think it was the workout that drove you to eat more. I've been noticing the same. Yesterday I did some pretty heavy HIIT, and today I have had more of an "appetite"... a desire to eat red meat this afternoon. It is SO TRUE that our bodies will tell us exactly what they need... if we only learn to LISTEN!
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| jeff |
And.....as long as we don't give it junk! |
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| Ryan |
My body is pretty sure that it is suffering from an ice cream deficiency.
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| jeff |
See my post above.
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| Ryan |
What?! Are you calling ice cream junk?
Blasphemy!
(Is the hijacking complete yet?) |
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| jeff |
Well, if you could take out all the sugar, then it would pass my test. I don't think the hijacking is quite over yet.
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| Ryan |
I'm trying to figure out a way to do that. |
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| Red |
Make your own with stevia! I've done that a zillion times. I'd be eating it right now if I were doing dairy. | ||||||
| Peter |
A high carb testSeveral folks have commented about my newly acquired eating habit, specifically by asking what would happen if I were to just eat what I used to. I've answered honestly that I didn't know. After thinking for several days about what used to be "regular" food, I tested that idea at Taco Bell today while I could eat by myself and keep track of changes after eating.Please understand, this was a one-time, carefully contemplated, controlled experiment. This was NOT a matter of temptation or falling off The Bus. If you accuse me of being in denial, I'll deny it.
Menu: 1 nachos bell grande 1 taco supreme 1 baja beef chalupa 2 beef combo burritos 1 32oz MtDew The following symptoms set in within twenty to thirty minutes of eating, and although it's been four hours since lunch, they are still present, especially the first: Major headache is back Nasal congestion Jittery General malaise Mental stupor Upset stomach Bloating Gassy I now have an honest answer to those who ask, but let me just say - I am not EVER going to do that again. 
Tomorrow morning, I'm having a seared ribeye and a couple of poached eggs for breakfast and hope this crap passes through ASAP. BTW, the MtDew was so sickly sweet, I could hardly gag it down. In the bad old days, I used to curse TacoBell because they tended to water down their sodas. What the heck was I ever thinking??? |
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| Dean |
Peter,
This sounds fascinating! I think I'm gonna conduct a similar experiment using donuts, pies, and cookies!
Just kidding!
Yah... get back to the meat, buddy! You'll feel a whole lot better for sure!
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| jeff |
This has become the experimentation forum! I love it! | ||||||
| Peter |
I'm really good at follow-the-leader.
Saga continues: - Didn't eat again yesterday, I was so uncomfortable. - Didn't sleep well at all. Went to bed cold and never did warm up right. - Woke this morning with a minor version of the old cravings - very ignorable. - I help with a fellow who is in the last-stages of Lou Gehrigs' disease and spend much of the morning on my knees or squatting down so as to see him move his eyes in answer to yes/no questions. Geez Louise, did my joints ache today - hard getting down, hard staying down, and harder getting up. I ain't never gonna do that agin. Carnivory Forever! |
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| Peter |
Back to losing weight again - 251lb this morning.
Three years ago, while on Atkins, I was the lowest I've been in my adult life at 248lb. When I hit 247lb, gonna throw me a feast - lobster or crab or scallops (maybe all three ), swimming in lemon butter. That'll celebrate losing an even 40lb since 23Feb and breaking ground into new, lighter territory.
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| Dean |
Doesn't it feel great, Peter?
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| jeff |
WTG Peter!!!
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| Billi-Jean |
Hey Peter, just popping in to say hi and that I miss you!!  And I miss your delightful wit!!
Hope things are going well with you! 
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| Peter |
I hate to discuss this, but I really need some advice, some help.
Shortly after my last post here, a year ago May, I abandoned Bear's WOE, altogether, because, well, it just tore me up - two to three hours after every meal, sometimes sooner, there was a mad scramble for a bathroom. Tried any number of things to remedy: 3 small meals per day 1 meal per day in the morning 1 meal per day at midday 1 meal per day in the evening Tried cow, fish, fowl, sheep, and swine, each as my primary meat Finally got rid of everything but beef and water Added a number of other zero carb foods back in gradually - eggs, cheese, cream, butter, etc Tried a simple form of IF - breakfast today, dinner tomorrow, breakfast the following day Nothing I changed worked. Never got nauseated beforehand, never got hungry after, had none of the other symptoms common to either fat or protein malabsorbtion; it's just that I had diarrhea after every meal. There are several things that bothered me about this: 1. I lost 45lb in 13 weeks. No matter how you cut it, something just ain't right with that. 2. Never had the explosion of energy some of y'all have talked about. Which isn't to say that I didn't go a whole lot farther, do a lot more at the same energy level I did have. You haul an extra 100lbs up and down every flight of stairs every day, and everywhere else you go, then lose it suddenly, you can't help but be fitter and stronger in a whole lot of ways than any pipsqueak vegan wraith... 3. I was cold nearly all the time (isn't this diet supposed to be thermogenic?). Hands were cold, feet were cold, and the rest of me was cool at best. Yes, yes, I lost quite a bit of insulation, I know, but this was springtime in Southern California, and I have been thermonuclear all my life - I never wore a jacket unless it was raining or below 40ºF or I was going to be outside for more than an hour in weather below 50º. 4. Most alarmingly, there is no way to know how much nutrition, if any, I was getting with each meal. So, all this time down the road, I'm back to 280lb. Couple of times along the way, I went meat only, with the same results. But I'm now backed into the same corner as last year - I've no choice but to do something to get my weight down, and while I'd prefer to live carnivorously, I'm not going to go through all that again. Has anyone been through this or heard or read of anything to deal with it? I'm much obliged for any help y'all might give... Peter |
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| jeff |
Peter, you have me stumped. I have never heard of such a thing, much less had any experience with it. Does the problem go away if you eat non-zero carb foods with you meat?
Other than the mad dash for the bathroom, how did your health seem? |
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| Kristelle |
Maybe you weren't eating enough fat...too much protein... | ||||||
| Peter |
Jeff,
Excepting the one excursion into the depths of Taco Hell, the diet was truly zero-carb. As there are no carbs like NO carbs, never thought to supplement a steak with anything else. Were you thinking steak and broccoli, steak and salad, that type of thing? As for health, no issues. In one of the earliest posts, there are listed several maladies that disappeared completely after switching. I felt good, if not great. Kristi, Wondered about that myself. During the three or four weeks of steak and water, I'd eat a 1lb, very heavily marbled ribeye for my meal. From its appearance, I figured 70% fat, 30% protein, very conservatively. This steak is about 1/2 to 2/3 the marbling of those I ate: http://tinyurl.com/6ehm5z This isn't to say that I still needed more, just didn't think I needed more. |
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| jeff |
Peter, I meant when you abandoned ZC, did the problem go away? I assume you were still eating meat, as well as other things. |
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| Peter |
Yup. I switched from my old WOE to ZC in one day, and on that day, the problem appeared. In the same way, I switched back to my old WOE in one day, and on that day, it went away. With the exception of a known case of food poisoning at a restaurant (there were several of us), and the few lame stabs at ZC along the way, I have had no other troubles. |
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| Heather |
Keto poops are what I call that, I consider that a direct weight loss. That's my experience.
I don't find any problem with your points. Seems like normal weight loss.
How can losing 3.461538 average lbs per week seem wrong, when you are way overweight and you are a man? It just doesn't seem excessive to me. |
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| jeff |
We have a new term on the Bus.....Keto poops! Thanks, Heather.
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| Kristelle |
Peter,
It's probably not the fat then but you also have to give it some time to work and there's an adaptation period. Keto poops!
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| Peter |
Thanks, Heather. Keto poops. Is that the common or technical name?
"...my experience." How long did your recovery take? Three uninterrupted months seemed a lifetime to me, and with no known end in sight, disconcerting. Bear said that men typically balance out at 10-15% bodyfat; what happens if it doesn't stop? Always wanted to be skinny, but not that. Kristi, You're right, we're not like cars where fuel from one station immediately runs so much better than from another. It's just, for me, instant coffee takes far too long, so three months...
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| Kristelle |
I'm like you Peter...VERY impatient. I'm working on that
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