The Magic Bus Trip

SnowDog2003 · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject:

It seems to me, from looking at the mechanics of metabolism, that fat is digested into triglycerides, and only the glycerol molecule can be converted by the body into glucose and stored as fat on the body. This means that 95% of the triglyceride is converted to fatty acids which cannot be converted to glucose and stored.

My thought is that fat, when eaten, can provide energy but cannot effectively be stored. It can free up the other carbohydrates in the body to be stored as fat, since the fat, which is eaten, provides energy for the body to use in lieu of carbohydrates.

Cody · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:17 am Post subject:

Lynn, how does it taste? Is it like mutton/lamb?

One thing I've never tried that I want to is snake meat.
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Blah blah, woof woof - Jimi Hendrix

Dean · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:20 am Post subject:

Monday January 26

4112 Calories
91% Fat

Chicken Wings
Chuck Eye
Pork Belly

OMG, that is the fattiest hog cake I've ever seen. It's like pure fat. Heart

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Lynne · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:32 am Post subject:

Cody · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject:

Speaking of intensity of spices, I had this Thai Jungle Curry yesterday that was amazing! I'm hoping I can find the recipe and adapt to to a veggie free version. I like hot food (and I realize that Mexican food isn't necessarily real hot food), and I ordered this curry super hot. My lips were numb, my sinuses were completely clear, and I felt amazingly alert and with it after eating this stuff.
_________________
Blah blah, woof woof - Jimi Hendrix

Lynne · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject:

my step father is mexican, my father was greek..
our food was hot and spicy all my life!!!!!
rich in spices.

that's one reason it was so difficult to cut the spices out of my life...to which i've returned some.. only problem is that food tastes so darn good that i over eat.

i'm sure it would be real simple to convert your recipe to non animal version.
i've always done this.. just scrap the veggies and increase the sliced protein.

i use to be big into curries and of course my mexican stuff...
now, i don't do any of that..
but i still make homemade mayonnaise for my son..
he's eating protein fat and water here at home, but needs a sauce on his meat.. he eats non animal foods outside the house.

so how is your progress?
are you cooking all of your meals?
someone else cooking them for you?

i made a nice garlicky mayo this morning for The Boy's burger breakfast and decided to throw a dab on my morning burger..
i do loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee mayo....

and i ate all day long yesterday.
one of those incredible appetite days.

so are you keeping with your program or do you stray?
_________________
"Failure is an opportunity to start again more intelligently."

Cody · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject:

I do my own cooking, but I haven't yet grown tired of basic meat. I do enjoy spicy hot wings at least once a week. I personally see no problems with having spices with your meat.

I didn't stray much for a month, but it was a co-worker's birthday yesterday, and our boss took us out for lunch. I couldn't pass up Thai food, I love it.

As far as my progress, I've noticed quite a few changes in my body. My face is looking different, my skin seems to be better, and my muscles are larger and harder.

My general attitude and outlook on life is better as well. But that could have a lot to do with having a life-coach and meditating daily as well.
_________________
Blah blah, woof woof - Jimi Hendrix

Lynne · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:

something new i have found with my ZC lifestyle..
as we age, we tend to wrinkle more in some places, than others.
one of my spots is on my chest, above my breast..
where the cleavage is.

yesterday, i was sitting with daughter visiting and she said to me, "mom, your no longer wrinkled there." pointing to my chest..
and she's right...
it's smoothed out.
not sure if it's because i continue to lose bloat and it's tightening, or...
the skin is getting so supple it's smoothing itself out..

whichever... it sure is a nice benefit to ZCing..
_________________
"Failure is an opportunity to start again more intelligently."

Miriam · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject:

Yippee, Lynne.
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zero carb

Dean · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:08 am Post subject:

Tuesday January 27

4041 Calories
87% Fat

Chicken Wings
Pork Belly
Turkey

God, how I'm SICK of eating! LOL

Tomorrow I get to drop my cals to 3000! Ecstatic

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

jeff · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject:

Yay!!! You're almost down to normal levels. LOL

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Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Dean · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:14 am Post subject:

______________________________________

Week 1 : Wed Jan 14 - Tue Jan 20

Maintenance Calories: 2107
Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

Average Calories: 5232
Average Fat: 86%

Expected: 2.8 kg body fat gain
Actual: 0.4 kg body fat loss
______________________________________

Week 2 : Wed Jan 21 - Tue Jan 27

Maintenance Calories: 2103
Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

Average Calories: 4026
Average Fat: 88%

Expected: 1.7 kg body fat gain
Actual: 1.9 kg body fat loss
______________________________________

Total : Wed Jan 14 - Tue Jan 27

Average Calories: 4629
Average Fat: 87%

Expected: 4.5 kg body fat gain
Actual: 2.3 kg body fat loss
______________________________________

Week 2 results are in! Cool

Looks like I did even better with fewer calories. Yup

Now, onto Week 3, where the cals will drop to 3000. Grin

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Dean · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:18 am Post subject:

Week 3 : Wed Jan 28 - Tue Feb 3

Maintenance Calories: 2097
Food: Seasoned Meat and Water

Wednesday January 28

3202 Calories
92% Fat

Chicken Wings
Pork Belly

Even though I dropped the cals, I'm still pushin' the fat. That pork belly is so fatty! Shock

So, I've decided to keep my food the same for one more week. Then, next week, I will keep cals at 3000, but, I will add in butter, cheese, and eggs. Heart

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Moon · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:42 am Post subject:

A little late to the party, but I just want to chime in: goat is delicious! I don't think it tastes like chicken though...but maybe it depends on the preparation.

Funny story: so last year I met this fella online who happened to be a vegetarian. Well, that's groovy. Whatever floats your boat, man. On our second date, we went to this Korean restaurant where I ordered what I'd heard was one of their specialities: Baby Goat Stew.

It was deliiiicious. Grin

Strangely enough, didn't hear back from the guy after that LOL

Pooti · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 134 Gender: Female

Dean you are doing so great!!!!

This is a very important experiment in my opinion. A question for you and Jeff and anyone else who is a braniac about this?

Why do you think my blood sugars started going up when I upped my fats to 80%? Do you think the cortisol insulin theory is a real possibility? Meaning, do you think I'm damaging my body by doing 80/20 meat/fat because clearly my insulin is NOT dropping like it's supposed to do when fed on a diet mainly of fat. I know the reason you are losing while doing this is your insulin is doing what it's supposed to do. It's dropped like a rock allowing the fat out of your fat cells. But you are not obese and don't appear to have insulin resistant fat cells.

Do you think a different dynamic exists in people who are super obese and have metabolic diseases such as t2 or hyperinsulinemia? I just don't understand why my body doesn't react the way yours or Jeff's has acted.

Also for your 3000 cal portion of the experiment, would you consider simply dropping the cals only and not adding the other stuff to see what happens with a further drop in cals? Then the next week, keep it at 3000 but add the eggs, butter, cheese et al? I think we would have a clearer picture of things...Just my .02, feel free to put me in time out at the front of the bus! Cry

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SnowDog2003 · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject:

Pooti, my blood sugar goes up with an increase in protein, not fat. It also takes a long time for the protein to digest, it seems, which keeps my blood sugars higher for longer periods of time. The cream I buy lists all calories in it from fat, and it doesn't move my blood sugar, even when I consume several ounces of it. But when following your menus, I did notice that you were eating an awful lot of meat, which would translate into an awful lot of protein.

Considering that fat has the reputation of being satiating, is it possible to limit your meat portions to 8 - 10 ounces per meal? Have you tried something like this recently?

Pooti · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 134 Gender: Female

Hi Snowdog - I tried limiting it for 2 days at the calorie restricted level but I think it meant more like 5oz per meal and I just was too ravenous to do it. I could try doing 8-10oz. Maybe I will try that for tonight's dinner and see what happens. And yes, my blood sugar has been staying elevated through 6 hours post prandial.

Dean so sorry to threadjack your experiment. Please feel free to move this post to where you feel it's appropriate!!! Heart

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Dean · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject:

Pooti, no, you are not hijacking this thread by asking these questions. That is what this experiment is all about.

If you check back, I said the exact same thing that you advised, in that I was going to do Week 3 the same food at 3000 calories, then Week 4 will be 3000 cals with the addition of butter, cheese, and eggs.

As far as your blood sugar, I agree with Craig. Perhaps your protein is too high. Do you get that ammonia smell? I have used that a lot to gauge whether I am eating enough fat, and it works great. Try starting with the fat and then do the lean. That's what Bear and others have suggested. This will limit how much you eat.

Go with really fatty cuts of meat, like pork belly, for instance, and you will get satiated very easily. Trust me, I should know, after doing everything I could to get my fat ratio up close to 90%. If you are doing butter, just eat some of that when you feel hungry, and you will be surprised at how quickly your hunger diminishes. I used to whack off slabs of butter from the butter dish with a knife and eat butter like that all the time.

Of course, now I prefer to lick it. Devil

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

y0u · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject:

Pooti, I very recently started upping my fat percentage and limiting my protein to about 60-80 grams or 10 oz total per day. It is not an easy thing to do by any means, and I had to build up to it. I also gave up cheese for 30 days and had no more than 2 tbs of cream a day. I am insulin resistant but don't have a thyroid issue. I am eating a LOT of tallow, bacon fat and bone marrow but still limiting calories. I lost 10 pounds in a month and feel really good, and that amonia pee smell is gone. I was eating a huge amount of meat before and not having any weight loss results.

I am eating close(80% fat) to the same ratios that Dean is doing in his MAM experiment except not nearly the calories.

It might be worth a try? I know how frustrating this can be, I really do wish you the best.

Dean..you amaze me!! I could not choke down the vast amount of food you have been injesting. Do you have lard and tallow nightmares and butter dreams? LOL

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Flap-a-doodle-kick-a-poodle-kitty-kitty-cow-cow ~ Fat Freddy's Cat

Dean · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:15 pm Post subject:

I don't recall ever having any lard or tallow nightmares... but, I often have very wild butter dreams. Devil

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

y0u · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject:

Like this?

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Flap-a-doodle-kick-a-poodle-kitty-kitty-cow-cow ~ Fat Freddy's Cat

Dean · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:

y0u better slow down on the Kool-Aid... your dreams are starting to manifest themselves in the Ward. Wink

Although, that might create a good opportunity for me to slip out of here, while the Boot Babes are distracted. Devil

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Pooti · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 134 Gender: Female

Dean · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:06 am Post subject:

y0u · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:11 am Post subject:

jeff · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:13 am Post subject:

If only Fabio had real butter. LOL

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Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Dean · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:22 am Post subject:

Thursday January 29

3323 Calories
89% Fat

Chicken Wings
Pork Belly

If you wanna eat tons of calories, eat pork belly. This stuff is like over half fat. There is a huge layer of melt-in-your-mouth fat on this slab I roasted. The whole slab is swimming in golden pig fat. Heart

I am now actually finding it difficult to get my calories down to 3000! Shock

This leads me to believe that I was eating at least 3000 calories a day for a long time before this MAM Experiment kicked off. That means, even though I was over 1000 calories above my maintenance level, I was losing body fat easily! Yup

If ya wanna lose weight, guys, just drop all the carbs (along with the red pill) and do ZCarnivore and get those fat ratios up, up, and away! Cool

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

jeff · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:24 am Post subject:

y0u · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:05 am Post subject:

Who the hell is Mary? Bonkers

Dean, your starting rumors about me aren't you? Roll Eyes

_________________
Flap-a-doodle-kick-a-poodle-kitty-kitty-cow-cow ~ Fat Freddy's Cat

Dean · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:07 am Post subject:

No. I was hangin' out at the Bus Stop, checkin' out all the new Boot Babes Devil

, and I overheard Pooti call you Mary. Confused

Maybe she was asking you for some Mary Jane. Dunno

You guys should really get your ~~drugs~~ stories straight! Wink

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

y0u · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:43 am Post subject:

Well, I DO need a job..I suppose I could hang out at the Bus Stop and pick up some extra cash...oh wait...that didn't sound so good... Wow

_________________
Flap-a-doodle-kick-a-poodle-kitty-kitty-cow-cow ~ Fat Freddy's Cat

Nicola · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject:

SnowDog2003 · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject:

MAC · Joined: 17 Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Gender: Male

jeff · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject:

And I aso agree with Charles......even though he has been ZC for a couple of months, he may not have his insulin under control yet. It may take more time.
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Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Heather L · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject:

I also think that each person's body may respond differently, depending on their genetics. People are not "one size fits all", if you know what I mean.

Pooti · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 134 Gender: Female

I gotta just say that the guy does not seem like a troll. I think Catin and many other's response to him where incredibly rude and shows lack of intelligence.

I think the guy honestly is trying to understand what's going on with his body.

I agree with Heather, this ISN"T a one size fits all world.

Also, the question is for those of us whose insulin is doing a number on them, what happens when we eat a lot of fat and protein? Are we injuring ourselves during the time that we are adapting and bringing our insulin under control?

I just don't think it's so simple. If it were there would be more hepatologists in the world and the problem is that fat metabolism and the liver have very little in the way of research respective to other diseases. When you are obese or have insulin resistance or have fatty liver or insulin resistant fat cells for whatever reason (binge eating, t2, diseases of civilization) our bodies will respond WAY differently to nutrients than others who may not have fully developed metabolic diseases or who may be blessed by only being overweight.

To read that thread just gave me even more confirmation of why I no longer fit in there. Meh... Mad

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SnowDog2003 · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:

You've got my curiousity. Can someone send me a link to the zerocarbage discussion in question?

I try not to participate any more over there, since I can't read Charles' mind, and don't know what he'll object to.

MAC · Joined: 17 Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Gender: Male

SnowDog2003 · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject:

Thank you for the link.

Notice that he says he would take in 6 or 7 thousand calories on occasion. I'm sure he gained on those days, and maintained on the others. There is probably a limit to how much energy you can consume as fat without your body storing any of the fat. The protein is probably very high too, which we know gets turned into glucose and stored as fat.

jeff · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject:

That's one helluva lot of food. I don't know how a person can eat that much fat and protein. I really don't.
_________________
Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Cody · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:50 am Post subject:

When I used to drink diet soda, I could eat 5k all high fat, no sweat. Once I stopped using AS, I got stuffed on 2200.

Stress and lack of sleep are real mamba-jambas. The guy is lucky pterodactyl's aren't attacking him, considering his sleep deprivation.

I'n not going to read the whole saga, but stress will kill you, plain and simple. I now meditate daily, and that in combo with strength training, doing some work on myself, and VLC leave me with zero cravings.

The cravings do seem to come back though, when I don't get enough sleep and/or don't meditate daily.
_________________
Blah blah, woof woof - Jimi Hendrix

Dean · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:12 am Post subject:

The only time I get cravings is late at night, when I start getting tired. That book Lights Out talks about that very thing. It says, since we get so little sleep compared to our ancestors, our hormones are all screwed up, and we get all these cravings for alcohol, coffee, sugar, etc. I'm fine all day, until I start getting tired at night. And, of course, during times of stress, it just gets worse.
_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

Dean · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:17 am Post subject:

Friday January 30

3401 Calories
90% Fat

Chicken Wings
Pork Belly

I stuffed myself with hog cake tonight! I'm trying to eat it up. I only have a small slice left to finish off tomorrow. I love the calm high I get when I eat this much animal fat. Cool

So, today, in anticipation of next week (Wednesday), I went out and got some eggs, butter, and cheese. Heart

Only three more days of meat and water! Grin

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

y0u · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:38 am Post subject:

Note to self: Make sure to check on Dean in 4 days, he's gonna eat all the cheese and eggs and butter in one sitting. Grin

_________________
Flap-a-doodle-kick-a-poodle-kitty-kitty-cow-cow ~ Fat Freddy's Cat

Dean · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:52 am Post subject:

Saturday January 31

2862 Calories
82% Fat

Pork Belly
Turkey

Wow, I'm starving today! Wink

Well, I'm finally done with the pork belly! While I like hog cake and all, it is the vinegar and oil dips that I use with it that makes me need to give it up. Those bottles are in the trash and were the last condiments I had. From now on, just in time for the February Challenge, I'm only gonna do dry seasoning (herbs & spices) with my fatty meat, eggs, lard, butter, and cheese. Cool

BTW... today is Day 69 of consistent Carnivore eating for me! Devil

It also happened to be 69 degrees here! Devil

That's the kinda coincidence I can live with. Yup

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!

jeff · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject:

69 down there? Geez, I got all excited when it got up to 37 here yesterday. LOL

_________________
Eat, Drink and Be Merry, For Tomorrow We'll Die

Moon · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:13 am Post subject:

Hey Dean, just to throw a little (more) fat on the fire Wink

, considering something I recently read (thought it was over at Junkfood Science but can't find the link now - I dug up the relevant bit of text from a different site). Basically,

"The problem with this century-old governmental guide (FDA's Dietary Guidelines) is that it was originally intended to provide recommendations on the minimum number of servings of various food groups so that the general population could receive a daily allowance of important nutrients...

...Like too many government documents, it’s the small print that matters and, in this case, the 2005 guideline’s reference to 2,000 calories per day for adults refers to the amount needed by “sedentary woman, not by those following activity advice. An average woman,” noted Szwarc, “walking just over three miles a day, for example, is considered active and requires 2,400 calories; an active man (needs) 3,200 or more.'"
-The War on Meat by Alan Caruba

This isn't to discredit your experiment at all (or the results you've seen from it), but I wanted to point out that it's worth considering that you haven't been exceeding your daily requirements by as much as you think you are.

Dean · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:44 am Post subject:

Moon,

I've been using this website to get my calorie requirements.

http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/DietMakeupCalc.php

I've also been VERY sedentary for this experiment. Plus, I don't weigh that much, so, perhaps that recommendation you cited is for the average male. Nowadays, the average male weighs a LOT!

Anyway, even using a higher amount, like 2400 or 2500 calories, the difference would be about a quarter kilo in a week, so, it's not really gonna alter the results that dramatically. Besides, losing anything on as many calories as I've been packing away is amazing. I've averaged 4351 a day for three weeks running, but, I've lost 4.2 kilos in that time. Even using 2400 cals a day, that should have been a 5.3 kg gain! Tell me there isn't a HUGE metabolic advantage to this WOE.

I mean, haven't you heard all that screaming coming from below the Ward? Shock

_________________
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
- Jimi Hendrix

Every day you'll see the dust
Never get off the Bus!