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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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Born: 3 January 2010
Gender: Male
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | I dunno. Women are naturally supposed to carry more fat than men. I definitely have fat on my body and probably more than I need, but not a lot around my middle. I have a 29-inch waist, which I think is pretty good. I'm all thigh and hips, which are the places women are supposed to carry fat, especially in child-bearing years. In fact, there are many studies that show that women who carry fat in their thighs and hips are healthier than women who don't. If I lived 100 years ago, I'd probably be considered totally healthy and normal, especially considering my DNA (I come from very short, sturdy, muscular Celtic heritage). But with today's media influence, most people would probably look at me and think I could stand to lose a few. It could be that I'm exceeding my BMR in calories more than you are because you burn way way more calories than I do. Who knows?? |
Yah, Red, I agree about the media body image BS clouding the real health issues. Curious as to why you say I am burning "way way more calories" than you. I know I will burn more, but not a gigantic amount. I'm 6' 0" and have an average (medium) build. I am so sedentary right now that it's sickening (not by choice, believe me - I'd kill to go to the park)! I'm eating lots of fat calories lately, in the form of butter, cheese, lard, tallow, and "cream". But, I have not seen the scale go up even once since Nov 1. Only down. That's pretty encouraging.
So, perhaps you are at the correct weight and that's why you are not losing. Maybe when I lose another 10 - 15 lbs, I'll stop losing. I think body builders who want to get ripped and shit go to extreme manipulation of hormones to do it. If we just eat lots whenever, and keep carbs out of it (as much as possible), I think we will get to a set point that is normal for us. If you don't have excess ab fat, health wise you are stylin'. 
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Red
Location: Canada
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Gender: Female
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | Curious as to why you say I am burning "way way more calories" than you. |
Only taking wild stabs in the dark as to why I'd remain the same and you'd lose. I have no idea. I suggested that you might burn more mostly because a) you're a man, b) you undoubtedly have more muscle mass than I do, c) you're 8 inches taller than I am, d) you've never had a significant weight problem or been insulin-resistant to any degree, from the looks of your carb-tolerance and e) did I mention you're a man? Goddamn men and their goddamn metabolisms... 
...What?
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Manaloa
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | Goddamn men and their goddamn metabolisms...
...What? |
   
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | Dean wrote: | | Curious as to why you say I am burning "way way more calories" than you. |
Only taking wild stabs in the dark as to why I'd remain the same and you'd lose. I have no idea. I suggested that you might burn more mostly because a) you're a man, b) you undoubtedly have more muscle mass than I do, c) you're 8 inches taller than I am, d) you've never had a significant weight problem or been insulin-resistant to any degree, from the looks of your carb-tolerance and e) did I mention you're a man? Goddamn men and their goddamn metabolisms...
...What? |
We do seem to have an advantage in the metabolism department. Sorry.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yesterday was a little disappointing. Mrs. L stayed home from work and made me do lots of Xmas decorating. I had big plans for eating, but that did not work out. I ended up eating only 3101 calories, 84% fat. I'lll more than make up for it today, though. 
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, this goddamn man, with his goddamn metabolism, has just dropped another 1.5 lbs!  I'm down 11.2 lbs since I got off the heavy carbs on Nov 1! 
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | Well, this goddamn man, with his goddamn metabolism, has just dropped another 1.5 lbs! I'm down 11.2 lbs since I got off the heavy carbs on Nov 1! |
Any ideas where your calories have been lately?
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | Well, this goddamn man, with his goddamn metabolism, has just dropped another 1.5 lbs! I'm down 11.2 lbs since I got off the heavy carbs on Nov 1! |
Also, I'm pretty sure Bear said you will lose fat on zero carb no matter how many calories you were eating. Didn't he say men would get down to about 12-15% bodyfat? And women a little higher?
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | Any ideas where your calories have been lately? |
Why, are you in need of some?
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | Any ideas where your calories have been lately? |
Why, are you in need of some? |
I'm ok, thanks. I've recovered nicely from yesterday's near starvation of only 3100 calories.
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | I've recovered nicely from yesterday's near starvation of only 3100 calories. |
What kind of punishment/reward system do they have in that Metabolic Ward, anyway? 
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | I've recovered nicely from yesterday's near starvation of only 3100 calories. |
What kind of punishment/reward system do they have in that Metabolic Ward, anyway? |
You'll have to ask the guard.
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Red
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I've had 1-1/2 sticks of unsalted butter and 3 egg yolks today, so far and that's it. Jesus. What a weird challenge this is.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | I've had 1-1/2 sticks of unsalted butter and 3 egg yolks today, so far and that's it. Jesus. What a weird challenge this is. |
I can totally relate!
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | I've had 1-1/2 sticks of unsalted butter and 3 egg yolks today, so far and that's it. Jesus. What a weird challenge this is. |
But, Red... it's NOT a Challenge! It's an EXPERIMENT!
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Red
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Semantics. For me, it's more of a challenge, considering how challenging it is. Not much of an experiment if I already know what the results are going to be.
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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Born: 3 January 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | For me, it's more of a challenge, considering how challenging it is. |
jeff has no idea how challenging it's gonna get...
| Red wrote: | | Not much of an experiment if I already know what the results are going to be. |
But, AC is not convinced yet...
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Red
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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Born: 10 March 1960
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | Red wrote: | | For me, it's more of a challenge, considering how challenging it is. |
jeff has no idea how challenging it's gonna get...
| Red wrote: | | Not much of an experiment if I already know what the results are going to be. |
But, AC is not convinced yet... |
Has AC been invited to visit our metabolic ward?
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | Semantics. For me, it's more of a challenge, considering how challenging it is. Not much of an experiment if I already know what the results are going to be. |
It's a challenging experiment. And I agree Red. I'm really about 95% sure of how this is going to turn out. Based on what's happening with you right now, and my own two previous experiements, I'll be very surprised if any of us varies more than a few pounds from our beginning weight.
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | Has AC been invited to visit our metabolic ward? |
We could have the Bus Boot Babes escort him around on a tour, I suppose. But, as soon as he started to get out of line, they would have to drag him to a padded cell. 
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Billi-Jean
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 585
Born: 11 September 1970
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | Has AC been invited to visit our metabolic ward? |
We could have the Bus Boot Babes escort him around on a tour, I suppose. But, as soon as he started to get out of line, they would have to drag him to a padded cell. |
Yep, just leave him to me...the way my head feels this month, I think I'd be Bad Ass enough to keep him in line -and would probably only need one BOOT!! |
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Manaloa
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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So here are my totals for the 9 days:
Total calories: 30,284
Total EXCESS calories: 12,536
So I should have gained at least 3.58 lbs
Starting weight 11/27/07: 207 lbs
Ending weight 12/06/07: 203.5 lbs
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Red
Location: Canada
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 413
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my summary for the month:
Total: 2567
Fat: 225 79%
Sat: 103 36%
Poly: 12 4%
Mono: 63 22%
Carbs: 11 2%
Fiber: 0 0 0%
Protein: 91 14%
Alcohol: 19 5%
I know these don't add up properly, especially the breakdown of the fat grams, but fitday numbers never do add up.
This is 1267 calories, per day, above my previous maintenance level, for 30 days, which is 38010 excess calories, which should represent a 10.86 lb. weight gain. I am 1 lb. above my original weight of 146, which is not unsual, as it's my TOM, as of yesterday.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for doing this, Red. We'll see how the others fare.
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Red
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't eaten anything yet today and I'm loving it!
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: | | I haven't eaten anything yet today and I'm loving it! |
I'm actually looking forward to not eating so much in a few weeks. Strange how things change.
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Dean, it looks like you've stirred up a hornets nest over there.
From AC:
| Quote: | Re: The Metabolic Advantage Movement is alive and well
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Save all your juvenile dribble about padded cells and lock downs, because my response is a whopping big yawn. Write back when you have something verifiable performed by actual researchers, not a bunch of AC-hating web weenies.
Time for a nap... |
http://www.lowcarbmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638&page=2
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
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I nominate Dean for part 2 of this experiment. We have to have something to compare MAM to, right? So Dean, you will have to consume 4000 calories worth of donuts every day for a month, and then we will compare those results with the results that we get from eating only fat and protein. Are you game?
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
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Born: 3 January 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | So Dean, you will have to consume 4000 calories worth of donuts every day for a month |
That sounds like the Experiment I did back in September! 
I will make you a deal, jeff. I will start this (with Rich) on the 16th? I think it is. But, you have to post in the thread at ACs explaining your results!
Hey, everyone has to lose their account on that board at some point.
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Heather
Location: near Edmonton
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Born: 12 October 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | So Dean, you will have to consume 4000 calories worth of donuts every day for a month |
That sounds like the Experiment I did back in September! |
I tried this in August...
| Dean wrote: | | Hey, everyone has to lose their account on that board at some point. |
Don't you know it...
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | So Dean, you will have to consume 4000 calories worth of donuts every day for a month |
That sounds like the Experiment I did back in September!
I will make you a deal, jeff. I will start this (with Rich) on the 16th? I think it is. But, you have to post in the thread at ACs explaining your results!
Hey, everyone has to lose their account on that board at some point. |
That's a deal!!! Did you lose your account already over there?
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Regina
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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Gender: Female
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all....just wanted to pop in and say hi.....I started my challenge last Monday and am finding it incredibly difficult to top 3200-3300 calories a day (I maintain on an average of 2400-2800 calories per day controlling carbohydrate, but not keeping it "low" - that is I average around 90-120g a day maintaining).
Anyway.....butter, heavy cream and coconut oil are my friends!
I've noted that my protein has dipped below my average intake when maintaining and not in ketosis, so I've bumped that up to cover glucose needs. But still it's hard to over consume the calories!
Bonus though - since I started, I'm actually down four pounds (which is why I looked at and then bumped protein up - I think it may be LBM, which would be bad!)
Hope you're all well! |
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Regina
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | Dean, it looks like you've stirred up a hornets nest over there.
From AC:
| Quote: | Re: The Metabolic Advantage Movement is alive and well
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Save all your juvenile dribble about padded cells and lock downs, because my response is a whopping big yawn. Write back when you have something verifiable performed by actual researchers, not a bunch of AC-hating web weenies.
Time for a nap... |
http://www.lowcarbmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638&page=2 |
Did you see the updated PDF of They're All MAD?
Love it.....AC writes:
"Given that no weight loss will occur without a calorie deficit, this is the very first thing any competent fat loss adviser would relay to someone wishing to lose weight. Those seeking weight loss need to know that they can cut carbs/fat/alcohol/sugar as low as they want, but if this fails to result in a calorie deficit, no weight loss will occur."
Heck, we all know we're just experimenting in anecdote here, so why not take a gander at some real data to see if the above is true?
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/103/12/1673.pdf
Subjects within this study LOST weight while eating excess calories....700 to 1000 extra calories a day....not all lost weight, but 70% (7 of 10) lost of remained weight stable during the period of "excess"....one actually lost 2.7kg during that period!
Every single subject consuming the weight stable calorie load lost weight during the period following the run-in (that tracked weight and calories to maintain for a week).
It is this particular study that made me go look at my protein level during my little experiment....the subjects in the above study were being investigated to see the effects of lower protein in the diet. |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ControlledCarb wrote: | Hi all....just wanted to pop in and say hi.....I started my challenge last Monday and am finding it incredibly difficult to top 3200-3300 calories a day (I maintain on an average of 2400-2800 calories per day controlling carbohydrate, but not keeping it "low" - that is I average around 90-120g a day maintaining).
Anyway.....butter, heavy cream and coconut oil are my friends!
I've noted that my protein has dipped below my average intake when maintaining and not in ketosis, so I've bumped that up to cover glucose needs. But still it's hard to over consume the calories!
Bonus though - since I started, I'm actually down four pounds (which is why I looked at and then bumped protein up - I think it may be LBM, which would be bad!)
Hope you're all well! |
Thanks for the update, Regina. Since your carbs were on the high-ish side before, I suppose it's possible at least some of your loss could be water and glycogen. Just a thought.
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Regina
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | ControlledCarb wrote: | Hi all....just wanted to pop in and say hi.....I started my challenge last Monday and am finding it incredibly difficult to top 3200-3300 calories a day (I maintain on an average of 2400-2800 calories per day controlling carbohydrate, but not keeping it "low" - that is I average around 90-120g a day maintaining).
Anyway.....butter, heavy cream and coconut oil are my friends!
I've noted that my protein has dipped below my average intake when maintaining and not in ketosis, so I've bumped that up to cover glucose needs. But still it's hard to over consume the calories!
Bonus though - since I started, I'm actually down four pounds (which is why I looked at and then bumped protein up - I think it may be LBM, which would be bad!)
Hope you're all well! |
Thanks for the update, Regina. Since your carbs were on the high-ish side before, I suppose it's possible at least some of your loss could be water and glycogen. Just a thought. |
I reduced carbs the Friday before starting to get into ketosis by Monday (I usually take three days to do so.....and had dropped the couple of pounds over the weekend that I would think was the water weight?)
Who knows? My weight is stable now....so it could be just more water-glycogen? |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Who knows? My weight is stable now....so it could be just more water-glycogen? |
Yeah, it's hard to know for sure I guess. But I think the main point is that you're not gaining.
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Regina
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| jeff wrote: | | Quote: | | Who knows? My weight is stable now....so it could be just more water-glycogen? |
Yeah, it's hard to know for sure I guess. But I think the main point is that you're not gaining. |
Nope....no gain......still minus four pounds and I've now consumed enough excess calories that I should have - based on the calorie theory - gained two pounds!
I'm thinking of doing something totally crazy now.....go carb-wild for a week and see what happens? I'm kinda getting tired of forcing myself to eat so much fat.....maybe I can adjust the macronutrients and see where calories fall - keep them within my maintenance range - and see if I gain or not?
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Hey, if I'm not back here again until after Tuesday - have a wonderful Christmas! |
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
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Born: 10 March 1960
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ControlledCarb wrote: | | jeff wrote: | | Quote: | | Who knows? My weight is stable now....so it could be just more water-glycogen? |
Yeah, it's hard to know for sure I guess. But I think the main point is that you're not gaining. |
Nope....no gain......still minus four pounds and I've now consumed enough excess calories that I should have - based on the calorie theory - gained two pounds!
I'm thinking of doing something totally crazy now.....go carb-wild for a week and see what happens? I'm kinda getting tired of forcing myself to eat so much fat.....maybe I can adjust the macronutrients and see where calories fall - keep them within my maintenance range - and see if I gain or not?
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Hey, if I'm not back here again until after Tuesday - have a wonderful Christmas! |
It is difficult to eat that much when it is almost all fat and protein, isn't it Regina?
The only problem I see with the going carb crazy idea is that there will be water and glycogen gained, along with any fat. I'm not quite sure how to get around that.
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Tracy
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 285
Born: 10 May 1975
Gender: Female
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Considering this... |
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Hi guys - haven't visited in a long time. I saw this challenge mentioned over in the "other place" and it piqued my curiosity.
I'd love to try this, just not sure how yet. All of those online calculators put me anywhere between 1562-1778 cals to maintain my weight while being sedentary (and then subtract 500 cals if I want to lose a pound a week, blah blah blah). So I thought I'd pick 1650 cals as my maintenance level and add to that. Just not sure how much to add! 1000 cals? Eat 3000 cals?
I'm supposed to be back to the gym in January - my workouts are about 30min weights and 10min sprint/walking/HIIT, 2x/week. I suppose I could force myself to NOT go for a month... :)
Nout sure I could hit 3000 cals/day. I've recently added some dairy back into my diet (I tested casein intolerant previously) with no ill effects, so as long as that held it might be possible. I  heavy cream and butter.
Anyway, I'll be following along for now. I've been a tad carb-heavy this month but IFing seems to have kept any adverse reactions to a minimum...still, liek Dean I want to get back to my regular WOE before I jump madly into total glorious fat gluttony.
(mmm...now I am dreaming of a steak, butter and cheesecake diet...)
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Dean
Location: Flyover Zone
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 5143
Born: 3 January 2010
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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So good to see ya back on the Bus, Tracy!
We all missed you a lot.
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Tracy
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 285
Born: 10 May 1975
Gender: Female
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I missed you guys too!
I am throwing myself wholeheartedly into dairy testing by eating homemade sugar-free cheesecake and taking cream in my tea. Oh, the trials and tribulations of this WOE. If I start this experiment, it won't be until after Jan 1st - I have one more xmas dinner to go (had 2 so far), and then a smaller xmas get-together and then new years. Back to keeping carbs low, but won't be able to get all the fat in. Though I do use coconut oil on my skin - osmosis perhaps?? (Jeff, this could be a new experiment for you...)
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jeff
Location: Milton, Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 6067
Born: 10 March 1960
Gender: Male
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm supposed to be back to the gym in January - my workouts are about 30min weights and 10min sprint/walking/HIIT, 2x/week. I suppose I could force myself to NOT go for a month... :) |
Tracy, I think about 1000 extra calories per day is plenty. The idea is to get enough extra calories to make sure that any weight change is not just normal fluctuations. We all know that weight can go up or down by a few pounds in a short period of time and not necessarily be related to fat gain or loss. 1000 extra calories per day would be equal to 2 pounds per week. Over 30 days that would be a little over 8 pounds.
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